I guess this is where a comment about favorite passages can go! My favorite passage in the novel so far occurred in the beginning. It takes place when Janie is sitting under her blooming pear tree wishing that she could be that tree. I just thought the imagery was so beautiful.
"So Janie waited a bloom time, and a green time and an orange time. But when the pollen again guilded the sun and sifted down on the world she began to stand around the gate and expect things. What things? She didn't know exactly...The familiar people and things had failed her so she hung over the gate and looked up the road towards way off. She knew now that marriage did not make love. Janie's first dream was dead, so she became a woman" (25).
This has been my favorite quote because it is simply wonderful. The image of pear blossoms reminds me of the innocence that youth brings. The idea of becoming a woman because her dream has been destroyed is such a complex idea. Much like the pear blossoms and their pollen, Janie has to learn to go with the wind, role with the punches. When the pollen is dispersed through the air, Janie knows that time has run out for love and that she must grow up.
I think the line "Janie's first dream was dead, so she became a woman" refers both to growing up and leaving childhood dreams behind and to the opening passage in the book. To me the opening passage seems to imply that the lives of men are governed by dreams and desires, whereas women are more grounded in reality and accept what has happened to them or else chose to forget. This way of looking at the world may also be caused by the fact that women, and particularly African American women have much less control over their lives in the time period this book is set in and therefore having their dream of life be the truth makes more sense then dreaming of a "ship at a distance" or something more unlikely to come true. Men, who have more control over their fate dream of things that may come true with work, while women satisfy themselves with reality.
Using this interpretation of the beginning passage, when Janie's first dream, of love being created by marriage, dies, she becomes a woman because she has learned that women must accept the truth and shape their dreams to it. She also becomes an adult in learning that not all of her childhood dreams are true.
Hey it's Isaiah again. I would just like to say that I enjoy the humor that Hurston slips in to some of the passages that seem quite tense in the story such as when Janie seems frustrated by her Grandmother’s (Nanny) decision to try and marry her away. But Nanny thinks the idea is good because she thinks Janie is at the height of her womanhood and needs to settle down. These thoughts that Nanny proposed spawned from when she caught Janie kissing “shiftless” Johnny Taylor. Nanny finally marries her to Mr. Killicks but Janie doesn’t love him because, as she tells Nanny: “ …’Cause Ah hates de way his head is so long one way and so flat on de sides and dat pone uh fat uh his neck”. Nanny’s thoughts on her reason of not loving him is silly since it sounds to her that she doesn’t love him because of his head to which she tells Janie “He never made his own head. You talk so silly”. Janie doesn’t just stop at just talking about disliking his head however, she continues on even describing his toe nails, saying “his toe-nails look lak mules foots.” Though the passage is one of the tension points in the story Hurston lightens it slightly with adding puns like talking about his neck, belly and even his toe nails. (quotations extracted from p.24)
Okay, I like this topic of “favorite quotes”, and my first couple of favorite quotes came right off the bat and definitely made me interested with the rest of the story, and frankly, these are the type of quotes that people should use more often. They would make things much more dramatic. Okay, so two of my favorite phrases thus far in the book were, “She had come back from the sodden and the bloated; sudden death, there eyes flung open in judgment.” (1) and “They became lords of lesser things. They passed nations through their mouths. They sat in judgment.” (1) The reason I like the first quote is that it has such descriptive qualities, and really lets you see those dead peoples faces. The image of just these corpses with this look of surprise and pain is really powerful and allows you to really get into the book and feel the horror of death. The second quote I found very interesting, and really tells a whole lot about the people and who they are. I felt that this quote was a good example of beautiful language, especially the part about “They passed nations through their mouths.” which shows, that they don't just talk about nothing, or things of unimportance, but entire nations.
Hi, it's Levin. One quote that stuck with me was the the quote: "Janie did what she had never done before, that is, thrust herself into the conversation". I enjoyed this quote because I felt like it really incaptured the fact that she both had never thrust herself into a conversation before, and also that she was doing this now. Which brings us to a cool concept, which is the concept of trying new things. While this concept is sometimes thought of as simple, in our society people rarely do this, and instead fit into niches in which they only very slowly expand their firmly established horizons. The choice to use the word “thrust” was interesting to me because It seems to really promote the feeling of sudden, forceful implication of an unexplored concept. I think that although this quote is simplistic, a lot more is said within the quote by language choice than many would imagine.
This is Carrie. One of the things that I found the most interesting is what different characters believe makes you a woman. Nanny believes that kissing someone makes you a woman, and she is partially right. Kissing someone will make you appear to be a woman, and will make the consequences that apply to grown-ups apply to you. However even if Janie was a grown-up on the outside she is still clearly a child on the inside as shown by her believe in every thing she is told. Including that “she would come to love Logan after they were married. She could see no way for it to come about, but Nanny and the old folks had said it, so it must be so. Husbands and wives always loved each other, and that was what marriage meant. It was just so” (21). This quote proves that she is mentally still a child, she blindly believes everything she is told even though she has no evidence to prove any of it. Like a child she is full of hope and optimism and does as she is told. After all she no reason to doubt their words because no one in her family is married so she has never seen the down sides to a marriage. She assumes that all marriages are happy and does what she is told. After she is married she expects everything she was told to come true, but it doesn’t. She learns that things are not always as you are told and “that marriage does not make love. Janie’s first dream was dead, so she became a woman” (25).
I’m only a few chapters into the book but one thing I’ve noticed which may seem pretty obvious is the symbol of the tree. After Janie sits under the pear tree that moment of happiness becomes her ideal image of life. From that point on she seems to compare everything to that one moment. She especially uses that moment as her model for how she believes marriage and love should feel. When complaining about her husband she says, “[A]h wants things sweet wid mah marriage lak when you sit under a pear tree and think” (24). Her memory of the pear tree seems to be one of her happiest memories and also happens to be from the same day as her first somewhat romantic experience which was kissing Johnny Taylor. This explains why she relates this idea of the tree to relationships and how they should work. She wants a marriage just as ‘sweet’ as her memory of that day. The symbol of the tree is also often used by the narrator. An example of this is when Janie first meets Joe Starks. The narrator specifically says that they “sat under the tree and talked”(29). This sounds like it is just a simple description of the setting but I took it to mean that Joe would be an ideal man for her. He fit right into her picture of happiness. (keep in mind I don’t know if their relationship works out or not yet).
I have finished the book and really enjoyed it, but was struck by how I had been told it was a story with themes of racial oppression, when I think this book is a story of racial empowerment spawned from oppression. An example is the building of an all African-American town. Though slavery had ended quite a few years before, the descendants of the slaves were still treated poorly and as if they were incompetent and could not form a functioning society of their own. The building of their own town shows that they can do things for themselves. Also the fact that there are few white characters to influence the storyline makes a difference in the presence of the existing class issues. I do have to acknowledge the shadow of racial inequality that is present throughout the book, but despite this the people seem more or less content with their lives. There are a few references to classism and how “the white people are superior”. This mindset stems from oppression, but the characters in this book do not live in fear, they just regard the white people as all-knowing superiors who are best to avoid. There is no overpowering force of racial hatred, just a few events that are quickly fixed. For instance, Mrs. Turner makes racist comments about Tea Cake and how dark he is. After Tea Cake has his revenge on her and shows she cannot speak prejudice without consequence, they are not bothered by her again. This action shows that Tea Cake and the others are not beaten down enough to sit and take hateful comments quietly. Though at the beginning there is some talk of racial oppression, the major theme is racial empowerment.
I always find some way to mess up a post in this....
Zora Neal Hurston's writing masterfully throws the reader into the story by using appropriate language and vivid and descriptive narrative. While this passage is from early on in the story, it is significant because it introduces the reader to Hurston's style. Hurston's word play and style requires that the reader fully engage themselves in reading and pick apart everything that she trying to say. “So they chewed up the back parts of their minds and swallowed with relish. They made burning statements with questions, and killing tools out of laughs. It was mass cruelty. A mood come alive. Words walking without masters; walking altogether like harmony in a song” (2). This passage uses colorful language that really adds a 'mood' to the writing. It also presents the strong character of the community as a whole which is important, and it also sets up the first dialogue which is significant. This passage also sets up theme of gossip as well as the challenges and trials that Janie will have to face in order to find herself.
“. . . so full of crumbling dissolution, --that Janie had believed that Nanny had not seen her. So she extended herself outside of her dream and went inside the house. That was the end of her childhood”(12). This quote is like two sides of a coin. At first the reader infers that the 'ending of childhood' refers to Janie, and the dream's end refers to Nanny. I feel like it goes both ways. The ending of Janie's childhood seems more important to Nanny, meanwhile taking care of Janie as if she were her own. This relationship serves as a second-chance to motherhood for Nanny, while being a little over-protective of her granddaughter. While the kissing-over-the-gate scene (10-12) signified to Nanny that it was the end of Janie's childhood, it did not symbolize the same thing for Janie. Janie felt ashamed that Nanny made such a big deal out of it, and to Janie the kiss did not mean she was ready to be married. “Ah don't love him at all. . . Please don't make me marry Mr. Killicks”(15).
It seems to me that Nanny wants it to be one or the other, Janie lives as a baby or an adult; rocking Janie in her arms one second, then forcing her into marriage the next. Hurston describes Nanny's plight, “They diffused and melted Janie, the room and the world into one comprehension. . . 'Youse uh woman now, so. . . .'”(12). Nanny's reaction made it seem like this kiss was the worst thing Janie could ever do, “She slapped the girls face violently. . . . Old Nanny sat there rocking her like and infant,”(14, 16). Neither of them were ready for Janie to grow up yet or for Nanny let her, and Janie proves this by letting Nanny treat her as a child.
The second part of the quote, (“. . . extended herself outside of the dream and went into the house”) is very literal assuming Hurston is only referring to Nanny waking up and walking around the house. As Nanny awakens from her dream, Janie is experiencing one of her own coming true. Janie then enters the house and is taken aback by Nanny's act of informing Janie that she is no longer a child. Hurston opens two sets of eyes. --Aleia
“So when we looked at de picture and everybody got pointed o ut there wasn’t nobody left except a real dark little girl with long hair standing by Eleanor. Dat’s where Ah wuz s’posed to be, but Ah couldn’t recognize dat dark chile as me. So Ah Ast, ‘where is me? Ah don’t see me.’ (9)” I choose this passage because it brought forward a issue of accepting oneself, that still exist nowadays. The trouble she had finding herself can foreshadow to her not fitting in or being partially accepted by others. I can imagine how Janie feels being a little black girl brought up in a white society. It is understandable why she made the assumption that she was not the dark one in the photo. Given that her grandmother works around Caucasian people, and she did not grow around children like her but instead other white children. She became comfortable in that environment yet was treated different by other dark little girls at her school. Having been brought up in one setting then out in another to learn confused young Janie and caused her to not identify herself. My Connection comes from being born from parents of two different sides has made my experiences life quite interesting. My mother being dark skinned with wooly hair. My father being little light skinned with bone straight hair. Even after the doctors witnessed my birth they tried to say I was not her child because I was too pale. Throughout my life with my mother similar events happened because people couldn’t believe a light skinned golden haired child could come from my mother. This made me feel embarrassed often until I realized I should live my life to please others. This recollection of her childhood shows that Janie has lived past what others think of her, when being juxtaposed to the time she ignored the woman bombarding her after returning home.
I apologize for posting this late because I just now gained internet access. N Brown-Almaweri
I agree with the fact that Hurston’s use of imagery in between some of the events in the story shows an aesthetic quality, which also contrasts the harsh reality of Janie’s relationship with men and her grandmother. Although nature does not serve as a significance in the plot of the book (at least from what I’ve read so far), Hurston seems to provide detail to describe the delicateness of her surroundings that seem to bring about questions within her life, as well as to provide a peaceful setting, in which Janie can relax.
Carrie, I think you bring up some very interesting points. I agree with you that although Nanny believes that kissing a boy turns Janie into a woman, it is evident that in other ways she is still very much a child. I like how you brought up Janie's assumption that marriage means that you automatically love the person once married even if you do not truly know them and how she could not really help but assume that as she had never first-handedly witnessed an effective marriage. I agree that this shows her unawareness and lack of experience in the world to know how certian things work. I found that your quote that states how Janie's "first dream was dead" and how she then becomes a woman, which I had not thought about too very much extent when reading, points out how she has grown and now better understands the concept of marriage and love.
(This is for the Lit. class' blog assignment. I found this passage sort of intriguing)
At the beginning of Their Eyes Were Watching God, we are briefly introduced to a middle-aged Janie, wise and independent, who begins to describe her life as a story to her friend. But as her tale progresses, the narrative voice develops into a hybrid of Janie and Hurston. By the time we are presented with an adolescent Janie, this voice serves as a mature standpoint from which the young Janie’s experiences, hopes, and realizations appear innocent and even naïve. Though unfamiliar with womanhood, Janie, at the height of her adolescent blossoming and self-discovery, is in fact more powerful and aware than she may ever be: unlike her grandmother, she is not yet held back by societal expectations of women. In the following passage, we experience Janie’s feeling of eagerness, desperation, and longing for something perhaps only tangible to her in nature: “After a while she got up from where she was and went over the little garden field entire. She was seeking conformation of the voice and vision, and everywhere she found and acknowledged answers. A personal answer for all other creations except herself. She felt an answer seeking her, but where? When? How? She found herself at the kitchen door and stumbled inside. In the air of the room were flies tumbling and singing, marrying and giving in marriage. When she reached the narrow hallway she was reminded that her grandmother was home with a sick headache. She was lying across the bed asleep so Janie tipped on out the front door. Oh to be a pear tree—any tree in bloom! She was sixteen. She had glossy leaves and bursting buds and she wanted to struggle with life but it seemed to elude her. Where were all the singing bees for her? Nothing on the place nor in her grandma’s house answered her. She searched as much of the world as she could from the top of the front steps and then went down to the front gate and leaned over to gaze up and down the road. Looking, waiting, breathing short with impatience. Waiting for the world to be made.” (11) In this passage, Janie observes with envy nature’s easily acquired answers, how its growth is a cyclic and constant promise. She longs for this natural and beautiful process and burgeoning to manifest itself into her own life, to answer her own, human questions and satisfy her elusive desires. Just as both the flowers and the bees are sustained with the blooming of the flowers themselves, Janie feels her own blossoming is necessary for her to truly “struggle with life”. But she questions the lack of her own blossoming, as well as a partner in this flourishing: she wonders, “Where were all the bees singing for her?” Perhaps she is longing for romance, as many adolescents do: for instance, she relates the interaction between the flies as a marriage (“In the air of the room were flies tumbling and singing, marrying and giving in marriage”). Soon, however, Janie’s view of marriage and love is to be altered when Nanna insists she marry—not for love, but for protection, challenging Janie’s vague but romantic interpretation of “marriage”. Janie’s budding world of adolescence is not ended by womanhood, but by the expectations that accompany womanhood for an African American woman during her time.
Throughout reading the first chapters of the book I noticed lots of references to a "donkey" could it be referring to a person or just the animal in general in relation to the story?
There are a lot of ongoing themes I've noticed so far in the book, mostly about either the divergent views of men and women, their expectations, or about love and the concept of a perfect union. Here are what I've compiled so far (note: I have not had that much time to read and I am not very far in the book):
Theme 1: The different views and relationships of between men and women This shows up a lot throughout the book and is one of the main themes; for example the opening two paragraphs: "Ships at a distance have every man's wish on board. For some they come with the tide. For others they sail forever on the horizon, never out of sight, never landing until the Watcher turns his eyes away in resignation, his dreams mocked to death by Time. That is the life of men. Now women forget all those things they don't want to remember, and remember everything they don't want to forget. The dream is the truth. They act and do things accordingly." This shows some of the disparate views between men and women. Also, when Janie comes home from the Everglades, the men see the beautiful aspects of her countenance and figure, while the women see all her flaws. This theme is also predominant in her love life, for example with Logan, who thinks women should be obedient and loyal to her husband while Janie thinks women should be independent. Not all women feel this way, but their views certainly differ, which eventually forces Janie to leave Logan, driving the plot onward.
Theme 2: people's expectations/stereotypes about how black women should behave and how Janie manages to surpass them One of the examples of this in the book is Nanny's expectations that Janie needs to be protected and needs to be shown the right direction, when Janie in fact turns out to be pure and independent, who in no way needs outside help in her pursuit of happiness.
Theme 3: the tree of life and its similarity to people's lives This is something Janie often relates to, some of her philosophical thoughts. She sees "her life like a great tree in leaf with the things suffered, things enjoyed, things done and undone. Dawn and doom was in the branches."
Theme 4: the concept of a perfect union This is probably the theme that drives the plot the most because this is what Janie aspires to find, her pursuit of happiness and contentment with her situation, both physically and mentally. This concept first shows itself to her when the bee comes and pollenates the flower, when she kisses Johnny Taylor. She truly realizes its importance when she marries Logan Killicks and is so unhappy. She runs away with Joe Starks and continues with her life in this fashion to find that perfect union.
Theme 5: the stages of love/how love changes people's views This happens with all the men she falls in love with, and a bit with her as well. At first, the man in love (for example, Logan Killicks) will dote on Janie and give her anything she desires. With Logan, where she does not love him, she is uncomfortable with this. With Joe, however, where love is involved, she likes this and runs off with him, only to become uncomfortable with it once more. After a while, Logan tires of this and complains endlessly about her independence and why she does not help around the estate. This is also why she runs away with Joe.
Not very far in the book, but I would also like to talk about a theme I thought was interesting, which is the theme of "steering one's course":
Janie, though independent at heart, is under the control of male dominance and mysogyny. She craves a life in which she is the master of her ship, in which she herself can make choices that determine her course. Although it is possible Janie could never completely fulfill this wish, her town of New Eden is a place in which African Americans can finally create their own haven. Hurston, in fact, begins the book with this theme of motivation and initiative in mind, writing: “Now, women forget all those things they don’t want to remember, and remember everything they don’t want to forget. The dream is the truth. Then they act and do things accordingly” (1). However, she states that women are in fact capable of doing so, as compared to men--even if it is difficult or uncommon. But in the following passage, Joe, Janie’s husband and the mayor of this budding “Eden”, communicates this theme of exertion: “Folkses, de sun is goin’ down. De Sun-maker brings it up in de mornin’, and de Sun-maker sends it tuh bed at night. Us poor weak humans can’t do nothin’ tuh hurry it up nor to slow it down. All we can do, if we want any light after de settin’ or befo’ the risin’, is tuh make some light ourselves” (45). Though he is referring to the newly installed town-lamppost, hidden in Joe’s language is a strong statement about creating one’s own happiness or one’s own “light”. The town is perhaps a manifestation of this idea, as the inhabitants attempt to create a santuary of equality and fulfillment, something that the African American community lacked so greatly. This quote and overall theme poses the questions: “Will Janie take this idea into account and attempt to seek out her own happiness and accomplish her goals? How will this theme present itself as the book progresses?”. These inquiries, along with this text, may help the reader become more aware of this idea as well as Hurston’s intended messages.
I just thought I would mention something that I found interesting while reading the book which was how Janie switched to Tea Cake so fast from her previous spouse in what seemed like a fairly short span of time. Could it be just a mental thing? or could she be wanting something more?
Hi this is Annie Murray. Sorry it was late, I've been busy with work lately. I guess this is where we're supposed to put our substantive posts so here it goes.
"Janie saw her life like a great tree in leaf with the things suffered, things enjoyed, things done and undone. Dawn and doom was in the branches." (8) Janie begins telling Pheoby her story. She tells her all about how her grandma, Nanny, raised her in West Florida with white people, the Washburns. Because Janie was always around white people, she never knew that she was black. Mrs. Washburn dressed Janie in her children's old clothes (which were nicer than the clothes of Janie's black schoolmates). Janie was called "alphabet" because people called her all different sorts of names. It was only until she saw a picture one day of all of the children that she realized that she was the black little girl. When she was a teenager, 16 years old, she used to sit under the pear tree and dream about being a tree in bloom. She longs for something more. When she is 16, she kisses Johnny Taylor to see if this is what she longs for. Nanny sees her kiss him, and says that Janie is now a woman. The quote metaphorically implies that innocence and womanhood cannot exist simultaneously, which is something the narrator struggles with throughout the novel.
One thing I’ve noticed throughout the book is the use of the words “in judgment” or just “judgement.” I saw it used quite a lot at the very beginning of the book, and then a few times later on. The word is usually used to describe being seen before the Judgment of God upon one’s deathbed, but is also used differently, like at the very beginning of the book, where its use confuses me. A dead body is described as having its eyes “flung open in judgment” (1) and the people of the town that Janie is returning to are said to be sitting “in judgment.” (1). These two uses of the phrase confuse and interest me. I’m hoping that some discussion can be started over this.
One passage that I found interesting occurs in the middle of the book, after the death of Joe Starks. The passage implies that Joe’s death gives Janie a more positive outlook on her own life because she no longer has to struggle with someone who tries to control and abuse her. The feeling of being alone (in this case separated from men) entices in her a feeling of happiness that she thought that she would find if she were married. “Besides she liked being lonesome for a change. This freedom feeling was fine. These men didn’t represent a thing she wanted to know about” (90). The passage illustrates a change in Janie’s opinion about being happy from the beginning of the book because she found joy in “being lonesome” (90). We see Janie find happiness not because of marriage, but because she has the freedom to do what she pleases, without fear of consequence. The passage stood out to me because early in the novel, she is clearly focused on finding a husband and finding love. However, her reflection on the terrible relationships she has gone through with Logan and Joe has caused her to rebel against her previous feelings about living a happy marriage. However, her inability to express her personal ideals while married showed me that her views can be overshadowed by those of her grandmother and by the appearance of a man that she finds attractive.
Hey guys, its Kira. I’m going to talk about Janie, and the fact that she has multiple people looking out for her with her ultimate happiness in mind; she continues to find her way into unhappy situations. Now, I’m not saying that this is her fault. It isn’t. However, Janie does things, and takes certain actions that are believed to make her happier. At the point in the book where I am, it usually backfires. It starts with Nanny forcing the marriage of Janie and Logan. Nanny wants to have the peace of mind that Janie is in the hands of a caring, capable, and loving man. Janie doesn’t want to marry Logan at first, but agrees for Nanny’s sake. Nanny does this for her peace of mind and Janie’s happiness, and in the end it just makes Janie unhappy, to the point of running away from it all. On page fifteen, Nanny says, “Tain’t Logan Killicks Ah wants you to have, baby, its protection”. Nanny, at this point, wants happiness, love, and protection for Janie, but protection is the most important of the three. This comes up again around page sixty. After the mule passes away, there’s a “dragging-out” for the carcass. At this point, Joe is mayor of the small town and Janie is his wife. Janie is lacking in activities for the day, and asks Joe if she can come with him. Joe, surprised at her request, says “….But de Mayor’s wife is somethin’ different again…..But you ain’t goin’ off in all dat mess uh commonness. Ah’m surprised at yuh fuh askin’.” (60). For many, a place of such honor, such as the mayor’s wife position which Janie holds, would be very exciting. However, this position just keeps Janie from doing the things she wants to do. While this would be easy to do regardless, she has Joe, her husband, controlling her life and actions. Janie marries both Logan and Joe because she believes it will make her happy. The promises of happiness from Nanny and Joe before these actions were taken only convinced Janie that it was the right thing to do. These decisions can be passed off as simple honest mistakes, with misplaced care. Hopefully the rest of the book will include some true happiness for Janie.
I was very struck by the passage on page 90 that talks about Janie’s love and view on mankind after the recent death of her husband, Joe Starks. It starts off with “Most humans didn’t love one another nohow, and this mislove was so strong that even common blood couldn’t overcome it all the time” and ends with “Like all the tumbling mud-balls, Janie had tried to show her shine”. The passage sounds as though it is coming from the mouth of a Southern preacher. The components of the allegory are very organic and there are many reiterations about diamonds, singing, mud and sparks. I believe that the passage is trying to convey that all humans are inherently good despite the chaos and hardships of everyday life. In the passage, Hurston talks about the angels as forces that broke up the goodness in humans and I was wondering her reasons for this.
This is Julia and I wasn’t able to have wifi access until today so here is my missing post for July 15th which I wrote awhile ago so these are some of the things I’ve observed more towards the beginning of the book. “Janie, if you think Ah aims to tole you off and make a dog outa you, youse wrong. Ah wants to make a wife outta you.” (Chapter 4 Page 29) Is Janie really ready to leave Logan? It seems like she has unrealistically high expectations for a husband but with Logan, since it was an arranged marriage I think that it gave her a much better reason to leave him. On the other hand I think that since she hasn’t even known Joe for that long so it isn’t the best idea to go along with him either but Janie sure seemed convinced that she should go with him. I wonder if Joe really know s how to treat a woman? Will he keep his word for not making her work all the time?
Well I just started reading this book not to long ago and so far it has come off as relaxing and calm, with vivid narrative. I have always found 3rd person narrative to be sort of tranquil and smooth, and since this book starts off this way, I think I might enjoy it, although I am tired of all the Southern settings because our previous summer reading was Huckleberry Finn.
“She was lying across the bed asleep so Jannie tipped on out of the front door. Oh to be a pear tree— any tree in blossom! With kidding bees singing of the beginning of the world! She was sixteen. She had glossy leaves and bursting buds and she wanted to struggle with life but it seemed to elude her. Where were the singing bees for her?” (11) Now I can’t imagine for someone to read this quote and not get more than three images to pop in their head. Zora Neale Hurston provides her readers with an enjoyable narrative, eloquently describing atmosphere and character persona.
Hi, This is Levin. One thing that I found to be striking throughout the novel was the intense and vivid use of description, as well as the frequent use of imagery entailed in such description. This really has allowed me to enjoy this novel more than I would have given simply the level of detail required for a technical, analytical narration. On example of this is when it is said: “ The men noticed her firm buttocks like she had grape fruits in her hip pockets; the great rope of black hair swinging to her waist and unraveling in the wind like a plume; then her pugnacious breasts trying to bore holes in her shirt. They, the men, were saving with the mind what they lost with the eye. The women took the faded shirt and muddy overalls and laid them away for remembrance. It was a weapon against her strength and if it turned out of no significance, still it was a hope that she might fall to their level some day.” One example of this which uses less imagery, however uses quite alot of metaphor, as well as overall description, is the quote: “Ships at a distance have every man’s wish on board. For some they come in with the tide. For others they sail forever on the horizon, never out of sight, never landing until the Watcher turns his eyes away in resignation, his dreams mocked to death by Time. That is the life of men. Now, women forget all those things they don’t want to remember and remember everything they don’t want to forget. The dream is the truth. Then they act and do things accordingly” I liked both of these quotes for the reasons I listed at the beginning of the paragraph.
This is Carrie. Jody and Janie are different from everyone else in town. They are richer and know things that other people don't. The people in the town don't like this and think that "It was bad enough for white people, but when one of your own color could be so different it put you in a wonder. It was like seeing your sister turn into a 'gator. A familiar strangeness" (48). The people in the town have a hard time accepting or understanding Jody and Janie. This is because they have some things in common it would be different if they were white, because then all their behavior would come with the disclaimer that they are white and therefore different. It is because of the things they have in common that their differences "put you in a wonder", they appear to be the same and that is what throws people off, they expect people to either be entirely different or completely identical in experiences, assets and values. A world in black in white instead of grey. Jody and Janie are clearly in the grey section they share the color of their skin (and discrimination that comes with it) with the people in the town if little else, it is this similarity that makes theirs such a "familiar strangeness".
Hi, I'm Genevieve, a Junior, and I'd like to continue on the idea of the pear tree, especially concerning Erica's point about how it comes to represent happiness for Janie. I definitely think that's true; I further think that Janie's state of mind/being is reflected in the descriptions of the pear tree. When the pear tree is in bloom, around page eleven, Janie is full of life and hope, maturing as a woman in the flushing height of her joyous innocence. When, on page 10, we are first introduced to the tree, we are met with images of fecundity and beauty: "It had called her to come and gaze on a mystery. From barren brown stems to glistening leaf-buds... to snowy virginity of bloom. It stirred her tremendously.... It was like a flute song forgotten in another existence and remembered again. What? How? Why? This singing she heard that had nothing to do with her ears. The rose of the world was breathing out smell. It followed her through all her waking moments and caressed her in her sleep. It connected itself with other vaguely felt matters that had struck her outside observation and buried themselves in her flesh. Now they emerged and quested about her consciousness" (10-11). Janie feels a connection to the tree on a very deep level; she is beginning to sexually awaken, which is reflected in Hurston's use of words like "virginity," "caressed," and "barren;” the last two sentences of the quotation refer to impulses and feelings that are felt before they are comprehended or questioned. The parallels between Janie and the tree are soon made more apparent: “Oh to be a pear tree – any tree in bloom! With kissing bees singing of the beginning of the world! She was sixteen. She had glossy leaves and bursting buds and she wanted to struggle with life but it seemed to elude her” (11). The later discussion of a "golden dust of pollen" that had "beglamoured" (11) Johnny Taylor, the boy she kisses later, continue with the theme of Janie’s emerging sexuality. The image is beautiful, but also it is symbolically significant (pollen is, obviously, part of plants’ reproductive system). The beauty of Janie’s description of the haze speaks to her state of being. She is fresh and full of joy and love.
Greetings and salutations to all. reading the book had sparked a question that I have let stew for a while: Janie doesn't seem to feel any grief or sadness when she jumps immediately from one relationship to the next... what could be the reason why?
Janie's first marriage is arranged. She thinks at first that from marriage, love will spring. During the first part of her first marriage, she is almost happy, as Logan treats her well and cares for her, while asking relatively little in return. The turning point comes, however, when Logan begins piling more and more work on her, while he himself does less. At this point, she almost becomes a slave to him and loses all hope of ever loving him in the process. Then Joe Starks comes bouncing down the road. He seems like a perfect young man. He has money, a kind tone, and makes Janie many promises. So, with the choice of either staying with the increasingly nasty Logan Killicks or eloping with a seemingly nice guy, Janie makes the obvious choice and "jumps immediately" into a new relationship. The happy period in her marriage to Joe lasts much longer than that of her marriage to Logan, likely because in choosing to be with Joe, she made her own educated decision instead of being forced to by her grandmother. However, as with her previous marriage, cracks begin to show as Joe reveals himself to be little more than a sexist power-addict. By the time he dies, Janie knows she wants to get out from under Joe's shadow. When she meets Teacake, he has no big-headed plans and doesn't try to sweep her off her feet. Instead he listens and talks to her and doesn't judge her on the basis of her past. And thusly, Janie "jumps" into her final, shortest, and best relationship.
To be blunt, she doesn't feel grief or sadness because her two first spouses treat her so badly that she has no reason to feel any sadness. Logan virtually turns her into a slave while Joe simply beats her and belittles her. Their marriage becomes so mutilated that Joe doesn't allow her near his death bed because he's so scared of her choosing to think for herself and "defy" his wishes to be a simple, quiet, housewife. So that's the best answer I can come up with.
In each of Janie’s relationships, everything seems to be very quick and rushed as she doesn’t allow enough time for herself to learn about what she is getting into which causes somewhat of a vicious cycle. However, each time that this happens, it is after coming out of a bad relationship. I sympathize for her, as all she wants is to be in a relationship in which she is truly in love and is treated well. Because she did not have much choice in her first marriage and was rushed into it, she soon found that she was unhappy so when she met Joe Sparks, he immediately enthralled her. Since she was so young and probably confused, she rushed into that marriage as well. Although to me it seems a little silly to merely go off and marry someone that she had just met, I also feel pity for her position at such a young age. Afterward, she soon realizes that she is discontented with this marriage as well and when Joe dies, she cannot help but to feel comforted by Tea Cake's kindness. Although many of the citizens speak disapprovingly of her new and hurried relationship with (younger) Tea Cake, she disregards them as Tea Cake achieves at making Jainie feel appreciated (and probably younger as well) after feeling so lonely and degraded in her marriage with Joe. Jainie doesn’t consider the similarity of the fast pace of her new relationship and her prior relationships, as her new love with Tea Cake, “made her so glad she was scared of herself” (p117). I feel that Jainie has struggled a lot in her marriages (which have dictated her life and the ways she expresses herself) and starting at a young age, too. As she doesn’t have many people to express herself to, she instantly finds comfort in each new guy she “thinks” she falls in love with, however, it seems to me to be somewhat of a vicious cycle in which she consequently gets hurt.
“A feeling of sudden newness and change came over her. Janie hurried out of the front gate and turned south. Even if Joe was not there waiting for her, the change was bound to do her good. The morning road air was like a new dress. That made her feel the apron tied around her waist. She untied it and flung it on a low bush beside the road and walked on…. From now on until death she was going to have flower dust and springtime sprinkled over everything…. Her old thoughts were going to come in handy now, but new words would have to me made and said to fit them.” (32)
I liked this passage because Janie is really becoming independent. She relied on her grandmother for most of her life, and then on Mr. Killicks. Although she is still reliant on Joe Starks here, she acknowledges that even if he doesn’t meet her and take her away like he said he would, she will leave anyway. Janie realizes that her life is going to change if she leaves, and she decides to change it for the better. When she talks about flower dust and springtime covering everything in her new life, the image is fresh and new, kind of like Janie herself. She is still very young and has her whole life ahead of her, something she seems to realize in this passage. She isn’t happy with Mr. Killicks, and so she leaves him despite being a young woman in a time when young women generally followed instead of leading. Janie’s ability to take control of her own life seems to come to light in this passage, which is why it stood out to me.
“It was bad enough for white people, but when one of your own color could be so different it put you on a wonder. It was like seeing your sister turn into a ‘gator. A familiar strangeness. You keep seeing your sister in the ‘gator and the ‘gator in your sister, and you’d rather not” (48).
Like other people have said, Janie and Joe don’t have a very peaceful, healthy relationship. He seems to like to place them above the other townspeople, something that Janie doesn’t like and doesn’t want. This quote emphasizes the mistake Joe has made in fighting for superiority; as the mayor of an all-black town, his focus presumably would be on equality and a place in which to escape from prejudice, and instead Joe has made it clear that he feels above the other townspeople. At that time in America, black people faced huge amounts of prejudice from white people, and suddenly Joe appeared and added his own prejudice to this. Joe alienates himself and Janie from the rest of the town with his assumptions of superiority. As the quote says, Joe is the same as the townspeople and yet he makes himself different, something which is disconcerting to everyone. This uptight, managed lifestyle probably contributes to Janie’s ultimate decision to leave the town after Joe’s death with Tea Cake. The life of freedom and equality with which Tea Cake provides her is so different from her old, suppressive life with Joe that Janie is all the more entranced.
Isaiah, I see what you mean about Janie not grieving between relationships. I think the reason for this is that she was never satisfied in her relationships with Logan or Joe, and she let herself spend a lot of time thinking about the reasons why. So when the relationships ended, she really had all her priorities in order: she knew that the relationships weren't working and why, and she was ready for freedom and the possibility of a new life.
Sorry to jump all the way back to the topic of Genevieve's comment, but I have noticed this as well; I think the use of nature represents Janie's generally positive emotions: at the beginning, adolescent longing and wonder. Later, she uses it to escape depression during her marriage with Jody ("...She sat and watched the shadow of herself going about tending store..[While] all the time she herself sat under a shady tree with the wind blowing through her hair and clothes (77). Then, when she falls in love with Tea Cake, she once again compares love to nature, referencing bees and pollination, and revisits the image of the pear tree: "He could be a bee to a blossom-a pear tree blossom in the spring" (106). This is definitely a big theme to look out for.
Hello everyone. Today I am going to discuss the connections between Their Eyes Were Watching God and a very popular movie and even more so book titled The Help. Both are set in a time period where African Americans were a lower class in society. Both deal with the struggle of women's rights. But above all what makes these stories similar is the strength of the heroins. Janie, Ms. Skeeter, and Aibileen are all courageous women with unique qualities. For Janie it is beauty. Ms. Skeeter, her intelligence. Aibileen, her perseverance. I am quite fond of the idea that women are capable of anything. Which brings me to my conclusion. The one thing I have enjoyed so much in Their Eyes Were Watching God is that Janie always put her self before her significant other. It is a redeeming quality that makes her such a strong woman. For that, I look up to her in a sense.
Hannah Miller here: There are numerous themes in this book, including ones that I will call: “Searching for the Bee”, “Marriage”, and “The Woman's Place”. The one that I will discuss in this blog is the theme called “Their Eyes Were Watching God”. What bothers me about religion is the belief that someone or something else is controlling my life. I see how it can be comforting and helpful, but I don't like the feeling of helplessness. It bothers me when people get into trouble, instead of doing something when they can, they chose to pray. When they could be solving the problem, they basically don't do anything. But sometimes, there is literally nothing to be done. When you are waiting for something to happen, and you can't do anything to stop it or hasten its arrival. This happens periodically throughout the book: when Janie is waiting for adulthood, then love, then death, then the hurricane. “They huddled closer and stared at the door. They just didn't use another part of their bodies, and they didn't look at anything but the door. The time was past for asking the white folks what to look for through that door. Six eyes were questioning God. […] They seemed to be staring at the dark, but their eyes were watching God.” (page 159 and 160) The time has past for Janie, Tea Cake and Motor Boat to leave or change anything. All they can do is wait. Another theme that ties into this one is that Janie has so little control over her life. The fact that she grew up with her grandmother because her mother was not present was not her doing. Her being thrust out into the world by her grandmother and marrying Logan was not her choice. Her finding love twice after that was not her doing either. Sure, she made little choices here and there that affected her life, but for the most part, her life was guided by others and, perhaps, a higher power. Her life was created by others, and was added onto and diminished by others along the way. A lot of the time, all we can do is wait for a change. Sometimes, all we can do is watch God.
Throughout the novel I noticed many different symbols and deeper meanings. For example in the beginning of the book starts out with Janie walking on the street. In her long hair and overalls. The towns people talking about what she’s wearing and talking about her hair too. The first symbol I noticed was her hair. It stood out to me as Janie being herself, self confidence, and identity. It didn’t seem like she cared what people thought about her long hair, and her overalls. (Page 2)
Janie’s hair: A symbol of strength and self identity.
Another symbol I noticed was the pear tree. There was a pear tree that Janie sat under. Hurston described the growth of the pear tree over time, and the way nature worked about the tree. This symbol represents growth. And the way that Janie as a character developed, and the way she became stronger in relationships and life over time. (Page 11)
The pear tree: A symbol of growth.
Another symbol I found in the book was the porch. As the novel continued the porch stayed as a symbol. It to me was a symbol of community and family. All the people from the town gathered on the porch at night sang songs, and basically just spent time with each other. It was a safe place for the town, and a place where everyone felt welcome. (Page 66)
Zora Neale Hurston uses vivid descriptions of scenes and characters to convey a realistic and rich visualization of the events in the book. One very interesting thing is that the way she describes things in the book changes depending on the mood of the scene. An example of this is when Joe Starks is dying, she describes him in a very bleak and sad way. But when we first meet Joe. He is described in a more upbeat way. The thing that I thought she described the best was Janie’s hair. It always seems so realistic, like you could reach out and touch it. Another thing that she described well was the town store. She noted every detail that you could think of, such as when it opened, all of the cans were laid out on the floor. Also, she described the material that the counter was made out of and what was under the counter in detail. This made the book much more engaging to read.
Hello there, it’s Kira. I wanted to talk about a quote that at first, to me, didn’t appear as important. On page 12, Janie kisses Johnny Taylor, and Nanny sees it. Nanny becomes upset, understandably, and talks to Janie about love, and Janie’s mother, and misfortune in the family. When Nanny first sees the kiss, she screams for Janie, and Hurston writes “That was the end of her childhood.” Because of the far-fetched nature of this quote, it seems unlikely that Janie was really losing her childhood with a single kiss. However, once Nanny starts expressing her wishes for Janie to marry, it’s clear that Janie’s childhood is truly gone. Janie wants to make Nanny happy, but asking Janie to marry someone she doesn’t love is a lot to ask. On page 20 Nanny says “Have some sympathy fuh me. Put me down easy, Janie, Ah’m a cracked plate.” When I first read this, it didn’t strike me as important, however, on further inspection, I believe that it was very unfair of Nanny to say that, and if she hadn’t, Janie wouldn’t have married Logan. I think it’s unfair because it seems almost like Nanny is blaming Janie, and is the reason for why she is a “cracked plate”, along with the fact that Nanny had just told Janie about her mother and the misfortune in her family. While Janie is a free thinker, she also keeps her family in mind. Even though Nanny just wanted to give Janie a good life, I believe it was unfair of her to force such a request on Janie.
Janie has four different relationships with men in the book. However the only one I would approve of is her relationship with Tea Cake. Tea Cake was fifteen years younger then her in age, which many people in the town, found inappropriate. I believe that love has no age and if two people find love together and they are happy together they should not be bothered. After her marriage with Joe Starks Tea Cake was like a breath of fresh air for Janie. She had been held back for so long and now she was finally letting herself do what she intended to do instead of having a man tell her what she should or shouldn’t be doing. “Jody classed me off. Ah didn’t. Naw, Pheoby, Tea Cake ain’t draggin’ me off nowhere Ah don’t want tuh go. Ah always did want tuh git round a whole heap, but Jody wouldn’y ‘low me tuh. When Ah wasn’t in de store he wanted me tuh jes sit wid folded hands and sit dere. And ah’d sit dere wid de walls creepin’ up on me and squeezing’ all de life outa me. Pheoby, dese educated women got uh heap of things to sit down and consider. Somebody done tole em’ what to set down down for. Nobody ain’t told poor me, so sittin’ still worries me. Ah wants to utilize mahself all over.” (pg 112) Janie means that her life was taken away from her and she doesn’t want to sit back anymore. She wants to make up for the life she lost with Joe and she wants to do that with Tea Cake. But Tea Cake is a free spirit and even though Janie loves it at first the first time she doubts Tea Cake is right after they get married. Janie has two-hundred dollars with her just in case and Tea cake takes it while she’s sleeping and goes on a day alone feeling like a rich man, then comes back to Janie with twelve dollars in his pocket. He gambles it all back the next day but Janie perhaps doesn’t feel as trusting. Though I feel they loved each other, they weren’t meant for each other either. However it was her best relationship with a man. She was happy, and they didn’t rush as fast as her other ones. She took the time to know him before they decided to get married. Janie was trying to find love but made decisions very quickly which may have been her downfall. In the end when Tea Cake goes mad and is killed by her, shed does it because she loves him but knows her Tea Cake will never be the same again. It is a mercy killing, which hurts even more then just a killing. At the end Janie is single but not alone. She has grown much wiser and accepter
Hi, it's Sarah. I agree with what Kira said about Nanny being unfair. It seems to me that Nanny takes her beliefs and forces them onto Janie. On page 89 it says Nanny "had taken the biggest thing God ever made, the horizon-for no matter how far a person can go the horizon is still way beyond you-and pinched it into such a little bit of a thing that she could tie it about her granddaughter's neck tight enough to choke her." Nanny stifles Janie until Janie ultimately realizes that she really, truly hates Nanny. But, if you asked Nanny, I'm sure she would say she was trying to do what was best for Janie. Sometimes people try their hardest to keep their loved ones safe, but end up trying too hard and destroying their relationship.
Hello again all. I have noticed that throughout Janie's relationships, we assume that she has relations of a sexual nature, but the only times it is even slightly mentioned in her two previous marriages is once with Logan, in where she is talking to Nanny, and Nanny asks if she's pregnant, and she replies "'No'm, Ah don't think so anyhow'"(22). This is the only indication that she has had any type of relation of that sort. But Janie goes of to even further question that this might even be true, saying "'Ah'm all right dat way. Ah know 'tain't nothin' dere'"(22). This prompts me to thinking that they might not have done anything at all, if she seems to be sure about it. This is the only time anything about this subject matter comes up during her short time with Logan. The next time it comes up, is nearly 50 pages and about seven years later that it is mentioned that "The spirit of the marriage left the bedroom...The bed was no longer a daisy-field for her and Joe to play in"(71). This shows that they did use to have sexual relations, but that they disintegrated as their marriage went along. While not saying that it stopped for good, it does imply they stopped doing it regularly. But the first time we actually know that Janie is having a sexual relationship is another 65 pages or so later, with the man she was meant to be with, Tea Cake. It happens after they fight about a girl that was flirting with Tea Cake. Janie gets mad and jealous and they fight until it turns into something more, "They wrestled on until they were doped with their own fumes and emanations; till their clothes had been torn away; till he hurled her to the floor and held her there melting her resistance with the heat of his body, doing things with their bodies to express the inexpressible; kissed her until she arched her body to meet him and they fell asleep in sweet exhaustion"(137-138). The fact that the author decided to even put this section in shows how their relationship was closer and better that her previous relationships.
When I was reading chapter 18, I found that the way the African-Americans perceived the Native Americans in the book was somewhat mirroring the way the African-Americans were viewed by European Americans. From references in the book to prejudiced laws, I know that at that time in history European Americans were considered dominant over African Americans. Of course the “reasons” for this were irrational and lame, however in the book I find that the racially segregated hierarchy continues past the African-Americans to the Native Americans. This is illustrated in Their Eyes Were Watching God when the Native Americans started to evacuate the Everglades. When Janie asked why they were leaving, they said: “Going to high ground. Saw-grass bloom. Hurricane coming” (Page 154). Because the weather was beautiful citizens in the primarily African-American town didn’t follow, in fact Tea Cake commented: “Dey don’t always know. Indians don’t know much uh nothin’, tuh tell de truth. Else dey’d own dis country still. De white folks ain’t going nowhere. Dey oughta know if it’s dangerous. You better stay heah, man. Big jumpin’ dance tonight right heah, when it fair off” (Page 156). Here, Tea Cake is pushing the Native Americans lower on the pecking order because he believes that the European Americans will know if there is a hurricane coming. Tea Cake’s claim against the Native Americans turns out to be irrational and misplaced because a few days later a huge hurricane hits and nearly kills Janie and sets off a chain of reactions that ends up killing him! By valuing the European American perspective over what turned out to be the more credible experience of the Native Americans, Tea Cake is contributing to an established hierarchy of prejudice, placing Native Americans on the lowest rung on the ladder.
Hi everyone, One the things I found interesting was the relationship between Joe and Janie. It started out well, like all of us read, Joe seemed like a very nice gentlemen that would suit Janie. As the story keeps on going Joe starts to lose interest in Janie and does give her attention when she needs it. In addition, he starts to treat her like a servant. It's kind of messed up because he doesn't see his her as his top priority in comparison to any task that he has to do. Let alone that he takes away her freedom to enjoy the community. He tries to hid her from the all folks because he's "jealous" that they will take her away from him. This not only causes tension in their relationship but it pushes Janie to rethink about her marriage and whether she wants to keep going or not.
“There is a basin in the mind where words float around on thought and thought on sound and sight. Then there is a depth of thought untouched by words and deeper still a gulf of formless untouched by thought. Nanny entered this infinity of conscious pain again on her old knees (24)”. This quote stood out to me because of its ability to grab a reader’s attention and force them to read it once more slowly. My first time reading this passage it threw my reading pace off and I had to read small segment by segment to let the imagery set in. Although I am not completely definite of the meaning I still want to make an attempt to decipher it and how it fits to Nanny forgetting why she was on her knees. From my understanding the first sentence is describing how the body takes in input from the five senses and the brain outputs thoughts to choose from. Just as if you were to see a flower, you sense it through smell and sight, your brain begins to fill up. The basin in your brain contains forming letters, words, and then sentences for one to either express or contemplate deeper on. The next sentence states that on a deeper level of thought that’s never been felt thought before (so confusing). This could mean that this thinking process is so complex you’re not even aware until it’s complete. As if it’s all don’t in your sub-conscious and is meant to be hidden. Nanny becomes aware that she is on her knees and feels pain in them, in the last sentence. In her case the process was backwards; she was first lost in thought itself, then realized where she was, and later felt the sensation of pain. On the other hand the passage could be meant to confuse readers only to let them reflect on how thoughts are formed and how a deeper thought can form in your sub-conscious without you realizing it. That’s only what I think..Any other thoughts?
Hey everyone, im here to talk about the realtionship Janie had with Jody Starks to the relationship she has with Tea Cake. Janie tells Pheobe, "Cause Tea Cake ain't no Jody Starks, and if he tried tuh be, it would be uh complete flomuck. But the mintue Ah marries 'im everybody is gointuh be makin' comparisons...Ah done lived Grandma's way, now Ah means tuh live mine" (114). Here shows that Jody and Tea Cake has some differences. When Janie was married to Jody she wasn't as happy as she was when she is married to Tea Cake. She would work in the store and in the post office and she would hate it. They would get into many arguements which sometimes led to physical harm: " Joe Sarks didn't the words for all this, but he knew the feeling. So he struck Janie with all his might and drove her from the store" (80). For as far as I kow at the moment, Tea Cake never harms her physical, but mentally by having her worry about him most of the time, but he does so for her good.
Alright. So what is with the end? So Janie kills Tea Cake out of self-protection, and since she loves him, it's all OK? Then she puts on a funeral for her "late husband", then goes back to Eastonville, and "Now, dat's how everything wuz, Pheoby, jus' lak Ah told yuh. So Ah'm back home agin and Ah'm satisfied tuh be heah. (page 191)" And there's all the poetry stuff at the end. Really unsatisfying. Okay, so I understand that in the last two pages, there is all this poetic wrapping-up-idge (definitely not a word, but go along with me here) of the story. Some of it is pretty obscure, so I am just going to analyze it in my way. "She pulled in her horizon like a great fish-net. Pulled it from around the waist of the world and draped it over her shoulder. So much of life in its meshes! She called in her soul to come and see. (page 193)" The way that I read this is that the horizon is like her life, what has past and what will come. It is a poetic way of saying she looks back at her life as an old friend (some people can't do that). Also earlier in the book, she said that her grandmother had choked her with the horizon, just as "she had been getting ready for her great journey to the horizons in search of people. (page 89)" But now, instead of dreading the choke of the horizon, Janie is welcoming it to her and examining it with fondness. It goes to show how so very much she matured and became wiser. OK, now that I have analyzed it, it makes so much more sense and makes the ending a little more satisfactory.
Hi, it’s Sarah. I want to talk about the hurricane. When the Seminoles say “Going to high ground. Saw-grass bloom. Hurricane coming” (154), this is a clear warning that something is going to happen. They have ways of knowing about the weather in advance, and, in my opinion, should be believed. But the workers think that there can’t be a hurricane, simply because they’re making “seven and eight dollars a day” (155). Then, when the animals start to go east, (generally a sign that something bad is coming), still no one leaves. I think that if the people on the muck hadn’t ignored the signs, they could have left in time and been safe.
This might belong in the language section, but I'd like to point out some the metaphors in the book. I have found that there are two different kinds of metaphors, ones that are just funny and ones that are meant to be intriguing. A funny one, for example, would be when Janie and Joe first meet and Joe says, "You behind a plow! You ain't got no mo' business wid uh plow than uh hog is got wid uh holiday!" It's just a silly metaphor to make the conversation fun. Other metaphors however are meant to have more meaning. Here's one that I found particularly captivating:
"She stood there until something fell off the shelf inside her. Then she went inside there to see what it was. It was her image of Jody tumbled down and shattered. But looking at it she saw that it never was the flesh and blood figure of her dreams. Just something she had grabbed up to drape her dreams over. In a way she turned her back upon the image where it lay and looked further. She had no more blossomy openings dusting pollen over her man, neither any glistening young fruit where the pedals used to be."
The metaphor uses imagery to show that not only is the old Jody gone, but he never represented love in the first place. There are several metaphors like this in the book, including one about love being a flower and a bee (which is referenced at the end of the above quote). In my opinion, the imagery of the metaphors in this book makes emotions and thoughts easier to understand by creating a picture in your mind.
Janie’s hair is a theme that is mentioned in intervals throughout Their Eyes Were Watching God, often in reference to Janie’s independence or lack there of. Jody’s insistence on Janie wearing the head-rag, because “Her hair was NOT going to show in the store” (55), is representative of his larger attempts to stifle Janie’s freedom. Jody is power hungry and wants control over everything, including his wife. This is why their marriage is doomed from the start, because he tries to stifle her voice, her personality and her hair. Tea Cake by contrast is complimentary to her hair and therefore to her self-sufficiency. Rather than attempting to hide her hair, Tea Cake tries “combing her hair” (103) which shows symbolically his ability to respect and work together with her independent nature in their relationship. In their marriage, just as when she is a girl or single, her hair remains down as a symbol of her free choice.
I thought it was a very interesting contrast between the way Hurston describes the mule's and Joe Starks' differing attitudes facing Death. After Lum finds the dead mule, Hurston describes the mule; “ . . . died like any other beast. He had seen Death coming and stood his ground and fought it like a natural man. He had fought it to the last breath . Naturally he didn't have time to straighten himself out. Death had taken it like it found him”(59). It seems that if the mule was human, he would have acted very mature about dying. He did not act afraid, although he did not want to die yet by “fighting like a natural man.” Adversely, Joe Starks was in complete denial that he was going to die. Hurston describes, “He wasn't going to die at all. That was what he thought”(84). Furthermore, he remains terrified. While Janie is talking with him about dying, he bursts: “Janie! Janie! don't tell me Ah got tuh die, Ah ain't used tuh thinkin' 'bout it”(86). --Aleia
I noticed that toward the end of the book there was great juxtaposition between good and bad forces of nature. The God talked about in the novel starts to seem not so benevolent as the storm hits and Tea Cake becomes ill. When Hurston talks about the storm and Tea Cake's illness she describes them with demon characteristics. Talking about the storm, Hurston says "It woke up old Okechobee and the monster began to roll in his bed. Began to roll and complain like a peevish world on a grumble." (158). Hurston describes Tea Cake's illness in the same way; relentless, cruel intentioned and incontrollable. "But the demon was there before him, strangling him quickly." (175) "Tea Cake was gone. Something else was looking out of his face". (181) "Tea Cake's suffering brain was urging him to kill" (183) "Tea Cake couldn't come back to himself until he had got rid of that mad dog that was in him and he couldn't get rid of the dog and live." Although the God in the novel is typically talked about in a monotheistic way, from one passage it seemed that Janie believed in several gods or accepted that there were different gods for everyone. "All gods dispense suffering without reason. Otherwise they would not be worshipped… Half gods are worshipped in wine and flowers. Real gods require blood." (145) Hurston goes on to talking about Mrs. Turner's God, which is composed of Caucasian characteristics.
5. I was wondering if anybody else noticed that Janie and Tea Cake's relationship could be considered as an example of Freud's psychoanalytic theory. Usually, I'm all for couples that are a few years apart in age, but the age difference here is pretty close to a potential mother-y-ish . . . figure; "Must be around twenty five and here she was around forty"(100). He also refers to her as "Mama"(128), which can be an endearing name but. . . I don't know.
"Janie hovered him in her arms like a child"(180).
Since we don't know his childhood, we have no idea what kind of relationship (or lack thereof) he had with his parents.
Oh, Freud. . . Does anybody else have an idea or opinion on this? --Aleia
I agree with Aleia that it seems a little bit strange that there is such a big age difference between Janie and Tea Cake. Perhaps they think that if they really love each other, age shouldn't be keeping them apart... Personally I'm not sure.. I think Janie is caught up in his childish and exciting personality and she feels younger when she's with him. I don't think she realizes that he may be a little too young for her. But I'm not sure what Tea Cake thinks about the age difference. He seems to just ignore it.
As far as I could tell, Tea Cake doesn't entirely ignore the age difference between them, he just eventually no longer sees it as a defining part of their relationship. At one point early on in their romance he mentions something along the lines of how he tried to stay away because of the age difference, but couldn't convince himself that it mattered. Later on, he and Janie also talk about how it seemed like she had used all of her old age with Joe and had saved her youth to spend with him (Tea Cake that is). I seriously doubt that the author was intentionally referencing Freudian psychology.
While I realize that a lot of people have been using this thread to talk about their favorite parts of the book, I am going to break the tradition and mention something I find particularly aggravating. I am sure a lot of people reading this book and contributing to the blog love or at least appreciate the very colorful language used in by Hurston in the novel, and, for the most part, I do not have any problems with it. However, one of the most infuriating parts of the language used by the author is her overly outlandish metaphors, such as the metaphorization of the porch-top storytelling: “When the people sat around on the porch and passed around the pictures of their thoughts … it was nice. The fact that the thought pictures were always crayon enlargements of life made it nicer to listen to” (51). While the metaphors are very creative and the imagery used is very effective in communicating the ideas to the reader, the overt cartoonishness of the metaphors falls under what I consider overly flowery writing and irks me considerably.
I will have to respectfully disagree with what Brandt has said about the author's writing.lol. Actually I like the metaphors because they allow you to visualize the scene in a way that you can relate to. For example, it's most likely that everyone who goes to Maybeck has probably seen an episode or two on family guy. We seem to enjoy it because it's funny and hilarious,and we realize that we like cartoons even tho we are grown ups, i guess. My point being is that she allows us to understand the situations by adding some flavors which makes us, the readers enjoy it more.
I can certainly understand Brandt’s dislike about Hurston’s use of flowery language, but I believe it much improves the book and adds depth to certain scenes. The English language is rather limiting when it comes to describing certain things, so Hurston makes use of her “flowery language” to describe and detail things that standard English would ruin. I don’t think that it’s outlandish or outrageous and funny. It’s simply the closest to the actual experience that Hurston can get using written English. That’s what makes metaphors so great. They allow an author to explain something that would never be possible to describe using straight English. You have to be flowery sometimes. For example, simply saying “I liked sitting on the porch because people talked about their thoughts in simple but descriptive manners” isn’t quite the same as the actual crayon quote. The crayon quote represents the actual feeling of the scene, but I think that it’s the best possible way of presenting the scene to the reader, much better than literal English would be.
There were multiple points throughout the novel ware a point was made that seemed as if it would have a greater impact in the future of the novel that didn’t end op following through. I find it interesting that Hurston throws in conflicts and points that raise a feeling of foreshadowing that do not end up going anywhere. As I look thought the novel I spot many points at which I marked foreshadowing, and or “look out!” as though the passage would come back to haunt the characters later on in the novel. A prominent example of a passage I mistook, as foreshadowing was when it was revealed that Tea Cake was a gambler. “Honey, since you loose me and gimme privilege tuh tell yuh all about mahself, Ah’ll tell yuh. You done married one uh de best gamblers God ever made. (125)” My response in the margins was “Tea cake a gambler!? Bad news! (foreshadowing)”, but in reality nothing ever came through and all the fuss over Tea Cakes gambling was not at all important. I enjoyed following these false leads and seeing which ones came through or not. Unluckily for Tea Cake the dog biting did come back to kill him, but many others laid untouched after their mention.
Just to respond briefly to Aleia's post on August 17th: It is true that Janie and Tea Cake are far apart in age, but I'd just like to point out Janie is not close to the ages of her other husbands either; Joe is in his thirties, while she is still in her late teens, and Logan is in his sixties, I believe, while she is in her mid teens. The difference in age between Janie and Logan is even more substantial than the one between her and Tea Cake, but because it was culturally accepted at the time that the male in the relationship would be older, by any degree, than the female, there is little attention drawn to the relationships in the novel that follow this expectation.
Hey all, it's Alicia again, sorry. I checked, it never specifies Logan's age, I had sixty in my head because that's the number of acres he owns. However, it does make a point of his being considerably old, describing him as "some ole skullhead in de grave yard" (13). Hurston also makes a point of calling Joe, at 30 years old, young in comparison to Logan. In any case, he is much older than Janie.
There seems to be relatively little racism within “Their Eyes Were Watching God”. The main reason for this is the sheer lack of white characters throughout the novel. The first half of the novel took place in a primarily black town that was run and inhabited by mostly blacks and the second half of the book took place in a are highly populated by poor black and white people, and in such a situation they tends to be less discrimination. The one major appearance of racism was the sad situation of Mrs. Turner, a black lady who prided herself in her white physical characteristics and idolized the idea of appearing white. Mrs. Turner’s view on black people is; “If it wazn’t for so many black folks it wouldn’t be no race problem. De white folks would take us wid dem. De black ones is holdin’ us back. (141)” Mrs. Turner was the first notable example of racism with in the novel. The only other appearance of racism is when Tea Cake is drafted into the grave digging army to help clear the muck of the dead from the flood. “They makin’ coffins fuh all de white folks.”… “Whut tuh do’ bout de colored folks? Got boxes for dem too?” “Nope. (171)” This was the only other notable passage that clearly identified racism as a subject. Otherwise “Their Eyes Were Watching God”, contained very littler racism.
I have to agree with Alicia's point, though it doesn't specify Logan's age, calling Joe "young" even though he's 30 years old does show that his age is significantly higher. as well as the quote said on page 13, it made me think he would be the 60+ years range but it's unknown still.
Interestingly enough one more characteristics of Tea Cake that sets him apart from Janie’s other husbands is his age. He is significantly younger that Janie’s other two husbands, who have been worse to her and more demanding. Tea Cake’s compassion and young attitude towards life was the defining characteristics of his love towards Janie. It was pointed out that his time spent with Janie felt like the life that she should have lived first, rather than after her other two marriages, for it was so childish and carefree. Part of this being true, was the fact that Tea Cake was physically much younger than Janie, and her other Husbands.
One thing that Chris mentioned in his response was that Janie's previous husbands were more demanding than Tea Cake. I agree that Jody was far more demanding than Tea Cake, but I think Logan wanted her to do more "womanly" things like cooking and cleaning and sitting on the porch all day long. Now, after a not so long amount of time reading one can figure out that Janie isn't to enthused about "woman chores." In the novel, when Logan asks her to just sit on the porch, that is when Janie decides to leave for Jody. So in a way they are both demanding, but when Logan wants her to relax, Jody wants her to fetch.
Hello, it’s kira. I know this was brought up a while ago, but in response so Isaiah’s question, I’d have to say that she moved on from Joe to Tea Cake so quickly because, frankly, there wasn’t much to grieve over. Janie loved Joe for a while, yes, but toward the end of their relationship I think it’s safe to say that Janie felt little to nothing, romantic or otherwise, toward Joe. So when Tea Cake came along and treated her right, she could move on to true love and happiness without much hesitation.
In response to Ellen’s comment on Janie’s hair being a symbol of freedom, I just wanted to agree, and add on that the way Janie presents herself really shows her free thinking nature. She keeps her hair long and out, as well as dressing in overalls at different points in the book. Along with the fact that she wears bright colors quite soon after the death of Joe, even though it was for Tea Cake.
I agree with Abraham and Theo about the author's use of metaphors and "flowery language." The metaphors and language make the scenes in the book more interesting and enjoyable because it helps us imagine the scene and see it in our minds, kinda like how Abraham was talking about family guy. I doubt it'd be funny at all if we couldn't see the scenes.
I agree, I think the book would be much less unique and for me it would be harder to imagine each scene, although it might be more straight forward and to the point if there were less metaphors. But the metaphors personally help me a lot to understand what the author is trying to portray in each chapter. I believe that the use of those metaphors gives the book an extra element that makes it more interesting.
Brandt, I see what you mean about the language being cartoony and not quite “flowery”, and while it is strange to be mixed in with the seriousness of the book, I’d say it works. Janie is a playful character, and I think Hurston wanted to get that across in a way that wasn’t just the opinions of others, and her own descriptions. I think Hurston just wanted to show that Janie’s “playfulness” is a large part of her personality, even affecting the way she things and speaks.
Hey, it's Ben. I love the idea of this having a favorite quote discussion, so I'm posting regarding one my favorite passages. The passage itself is the entirety of page 131-135 (ch14). It depicts the development of both the community in the Glades and the development of Janie's relationship with Tea Cake.
One part in particular caught my attention as I was reading:
"All night now the jocks clanged and clamored. Pianos living three lifetimes in one. Blues made and used right on the spot. Dancing, fighting, singing, crying, laughing, winning and losing love every hour. Work all day for money, fight all night for love. The rich black earth clinging to bodies and biting the skin like ants." (p131)
I particularly like this part because it showcases a little bit of everyday life in the Glades. It conveys an atmosphere of fun, casual living and working. The writing in chapter fourteen also allows the reader to kind of immerse themselves in the situation and kind of understand what's going on. Another reason I like that passage is that without much dialogue it manages to make you feel like you're there and can easily imagine the conversations yourself.
I agree with your post about how the metaphors help with what the author is trying to portray. Every few chapters (or even less) I noticed different metaphors that the author put in. They made the parts in the book easier to understand. The way she wrote them also helped me to visualize the metaphor its self.
Annie again. Sorry i've been lagging on the posts. This is to make up for the august 1 post. So i want to touch on the subject of death because it seems to be such a prominent point in the novel. "So Janie began to think of Death. Death, that strange being with the huge square toes who lived way in the West. The great one who lived in the straight house like a platform without sides to it, and without a roof. What need has Death for a cover, and what winds can blow against him? He stands in his high house that overlooks the world. Stands watchful and motionless all day with his sword drawn back, waiting for the messenger to bid him come. Been standing there before there was a where or a when or a then. She was liable to find a feather from his wings lying in her yard any day now. She was sad and afraid too. Poor Jody!" (84)
Janie’s conception of death is full of ironies. First, she imagines Death as an eternal being when he really introduces people to eternity. When she asks, "what winds can blow against him?" it foreshadows the deathly hurricane at the end of the novel that brings so much death among the inhabitants of the Everglades. Appropriately, though, Janie’s concept of death is a vacuum – a space "without sides and without a roof" – signaling the emptiness and eternity of death. Interestingly, she doesn’t imagine such a horrible and lonely death for Tea Cake later on.
"She hated her grandmother and had hidden it from herself all these years under a cloak of pity. She had been getting ready for her great journey to the horizons in search of people; it was important to all the world that she should find them and they find her. But she had been whipped like a cur dog, and run off down a back road after things. It was all according to the way you see things. Some people could look at a mud-puddle and see an ocean with ships. But Nanny belonged to that other kind that loved to deal in scraps. Here Nanny had taken the biggest thing God ever made, the horizon – for not matter how far a person can go the horizon is still way beyond you – and pinched it in to such a little bit of a thing that she could tie it about her granddaughter’s neck tight enough to choke her. She hated the old woman who had twisted her so in the name of love." (89)
This quote illuminates the theme of freedom which Janie desperately tries to pursue throughout the novel. Nanny tried to confine Janie's sense of value to only material objects or "things" while Janie has always really loved "people." Nanny imposed her narrow sense of the world onto the more broadminded Janie. This concept is illustrated in Janie’s metaphor of the horizon; Nanny took the "biggest thing God ever made" and twisted it into a choking noose that would not let Janie breathe, much less live, in the way she wanted to.
I just recently read the beginning of chapter 17 and I found Tea Cake’s way of showing his love very strange. In order to assure that everyone understands that Jainie is his wife and belongs to him, he hits her so that others see the bruises on her, giving him almost an ownership. This part strikes me because its not that he is mad at Jainie at all or even truly wants to hurt her but because he is worried of other men liking her. He then feels bad after hitting her as he, “petted and pampered her as if those two or three face slaps had nearly killed her” (p147). Everyone else is aware that he does not truly want to hurt her and only does it as a mean to protect her as the book states that the other women were envious of the way in which he treated her after abusing her. It seems a little twisted, however, it comes across to me that Tea Cake lightly hitting Jainie is a sign of love for her as he doesn’t want her to leave him.
In response to Chris's August 26th post, I think that the reason there seems to be so little racism in the novel is that there is practically no interaction between blacks and whites apart from the scenes of the post-hurricane clean-up. The novel deals almost exclusively with black characters.
Interesting comment Brandt. I would agree that while we see little direct actions taken by racists against the characters in the novels, racism plays a large role. The society that the protagonist inhabits is one that has been molded by centuries of racism, and there are many direct references to this. I seem to recall a passage where Janie's second husband is described as being as well dressed as a white person. This was one of the many accounts of the differences in socio-economic situations between communities of different race. This novel is not so much a description of racist actions, but it deals a lot of with cultures shaped by racism.
In response to Guthrie while I do agree that racism plays a small background role in the novel it seems like Hurston is trying to show that these societies are trying to escape oppression because of race but that they are creating a whole new system of oppression in the process. Hurston doesn't show direct racism because she wants to show that these people are now oppressed by gender and class.
Since this is my last post before school starts, I want to focus not on just a character or a scene but the whole book itself. I’ve read the book twice since I got it and the first time I was so reluctant on having to do homework during such a busy summer I mentally forced myself to dislike the book. I complained that the language was too difficult and the story was dull. Upon my second time reading it, I was absorbed and taking avid notes in the book. It is story of a young woman trying to find true love, finding herself, and growing up to be a wiser woman. Now I’m sure many of us have heard that storyline before but with “Their Eyes were Watching God”,it made me feel for Janie and at that time it seems marriage wasn’t as big a decision as it is now. The first time I read this book I thought that Janie was reckless and spinning out of control. She runs away with a strange man named Joe Starks and marries him, after leaving her husband she was forced to marry, Logan, then seriously regrets it. When he dies of sickness she meets Tea Cake who is about fifteen years younger. Upon reading it again I began to understand Janie’s situation by reading the passages more slowly and clearly. Logan accuses of her of being spoiled rotten and is rude to her on numerous occasions. “Aw you know Ah’m gwine to chop de wood fuh yuh. Even if you is stingy as you can be wid me. Yo’ Grandma and me myself done spoilt’ yuh now, and Ah reckon Ah have tuh keep on wid it.” (pg 27, Logan Killicks) and I finally understood why Janie jumped into such a hurried marriage with Joe is because she was young and sick of her stupid husband. She needed adventure and Joe Starks had big dreams which came true, but only tore their relationship apart. He was sexist, possessive, and power hungry. She was with him about twenty years and in that time her childhood was taken away. When asked to make a speech upon arriving in a new town Joe interrupts to say, “Thank yuh fuh yo’ compliments, but mah wife don’t know nothin’ ‘bout no speech makin’. Ah never married her for nothin’ lak dat. She’s uh woman and her place is is de home.”(pg 43, Joe Starks). Janie feels uncomftorable and hurt during every comment but whenever she stands up for herself she loses. Joe becomes sick and dies but she soon after meets Tea Cake and he is young and more carefree. When I first read the book I thought the age difference was too strange. Now I believe love has no age and since she was happy with him I respected it. Tea Cake gave back the young days she missed and though he did make mistakes it was the carefree life that Janie had missed while married to Joe Starks. I loved Tea Cake and even though he wasn’t the most interesting character he was always so happy and I loved him for that. I didn’t trust him at first, running away with Janie’s money, being gone for long periods of time, but he did it all because of love for Janie. When Janie kills him for mercy from his terrible disease. All in all it was a great read for my summer and the language is more familiar so I can understand it. It really broadened my appeal for more book and I’m glad it was chosen.
I agree with Christopher that there are only a few incidences of racism throughout the novel. Due to its setting, I thought when I first began reading the book that it would deal with a lot of racial issues however there really end up only being a few. The incident that really stands out the most to me is Mrs. Turner's racist character and comments however this is still a little surprising as its not a direct incident with white people in society. I think that maybe it would have added a lot of interesting events had the book dealt more with the racism of the time but then again its also nice to read of black people during the time living happily and not being totally suppressed by society.
I was also initially looking for more incidents of racism and racial issues. The issues and incidents that were portrayed in the book were mostly subtle, or in the background, or somehow removed from the way in which we normally think of those issues.
Janie spends the entire novel trying to find true love and when she finds it she realizes that she needs to put herself first and utilize her new found independence, and gun skills, to kill Tea Cake, the only one holding her back in life. “Did marriage end the cosmic loneliness of the unmated? Did marriage compel love like the sun the day?” (21) This is not only one of my favorite quotes of the beginning of the novel but I think some of the main themes of the novel are the contrast between love and independence. Janie, being pushed into her first marriage by her grandmother is seeking love. She is not satisfied with her first marriage though, so she leaves him. Then she meets Joe Starks he treats her better and really likes her but again she is not satisfied she still has a loveless marriage. It is not until she meets Tea Cake that she is satisfied, because he teaches her to be independent. She grows in the novel from an innocent girl contemplating what love is and if marriage will bring her love to a woman that is sure of herself and her actions. It is not until the end of her first marriage where she leaves the childhood world where all her dreams come true and she enters real life. She is progressing towards womanhood. That is another question altogether: What is womanhood to Janie? In the beginning of the novel, her friends say womanhood is about appearance. “Even wid dem overhalls on, you shows yo’ womanhood” (4) Womanhood is the beauty or womanly necessities women have. But I think womanhood has to do with independence. You can reach womanhood when you can fully function on your own in society and not relay on a husband, which she ends up realizing. This is my justification for her shooting Tea Cake. She needs to reach her full womanhood, which is the true journey of the novel. Tea Cake served as a great catalyst in starting her curiosity towards fully becoming a woman but to finish the journey on her own she would have to kill the one she loves.
One quote that caught my attention occurs near the end of the book, when we see that Tea Cake and Janie have lived through the storm, which causes many casualties. The author describes the image of the town that Janie and Tea Cake escaped to with strong detail blended with a bleak tone that elaborately describes the situation. “Corpses were not just found in wrecked houses. They were under houses, tangled in shrubbery, floating in water, hanging in trees, drifting under wreckage” (170). The quote is one of my favorite quotes in the book because Hurston combines the features of nature that can be considered as peaceful with the horrific images of corpses. At the same time, we see the devastating effect that nature also controls. The narration describes the actions of the bodies with fluid, yet motionless movement, whether they are “floating” (170) or “drifting” (170) in the different settings of nature. The soothing aspect of nature does not overshadow the concept of death, but blends with it in order to create a powerful and evoking message to the reader.
Hi, it's Ian. Going back to what Chris Larsen said, there's very little racism in the book, because the majority of the characters in the story are black. The only appearances of racism were shown in Mrs. Turner, who worshiped the Caucasian race as though it were a bloodthirsty god, and in the men who forced Tea Cake to bury bodies, who said that only the white people got coffins. However, I have found racism somewhere else too. Right before the hurricane strikes, Tea Cake talks to his friend Lias, who urges Tea Cake to go with him. Lias says, "De Indians gahn east, man. It's dangerous." Tea Cake replies, "Dey don't always know. Indians don't know much uh nothin', tuh tell de truth. Else dey'd own dis country still. De white folks ain't gone nowhere. Dey oughta know if it's dangerous." Tea Cake decides not to go because he thinks the Native Americans are dumb and the white people haven't left. What's strange is that one would think that the blatant oppression by white people would cause black people to be more respectful towards other "racial minorities" such as Native Americans, yet it only makes them want to seek out other people to diminish so that THEY can hold power over something. Tea Cake thinks that white people is above him (the white people don't leave, so he doesn't either), so to compensate, he decides that Native Americans are below him.
I wanted to talk a bit about why the book was titled Their Eyes Were Watching God. Before I started reading it, I had assumed that the book would be entirely centered on God and his effect on human life, because that was what the title seemed to imply, so I was surprised to find so much in it about human empowerment. Rather than the plot focusing on religion, as I expected, much of the story seemed designed to show the power that we as humans have over our own life. That is not to say that God does not play a reasonably significant role- every time a major problem arises he is remembered again and begged for help- but God is not really part of the people’s everyday life. Janie’s last spoken phrase sums up the general vibe of the book to a certain extent. She says, “Two thing everybody’s got tuh do fuh theyselves. They got tuh go tuh God, and they got to find out about livin’ fuh theyselves” (192). This was the surprisingly mixed feeling I got from the whole of the book, that while God had a hand in what was happening, ultimately it was up to the people to decide for themselves, for better or for worse.
This quote highlights the ongoing theme of innocence.
"Here was peace. She pulled in her horizon like a great fish-net. Pulled it from around the waist of the world and draped it over her shoulder. So much of life in its meshes! She called in her soul to come and see."(193)
In the last paragraph of the novel, both Janie’s innocence and maturity are represented in the image of the horizon. As an innocent child, Janie always chased her horizons. Here at the end, she has both worshipped her horizons from afar and experienced them so she has the potential to "pull it from around the waist of the world and drape it over her shoulder," without complete ignorance but also without doubt. Now she can just marvel and cherish all the life caught in its meshes and relive her many full memories.
I agree with Ellen. I was expecting a larger part of the book to be focused on religion and God, but I found that these aspects didn't come into play until a lot later in the book. During the hurricane was one of the times that I noticed that that God itself is mentioned. "Six eyes were questioning God"(159). This quote seems to be one of the major references to the title. It comes at an important time, the hurricane, which is the event that leads up to Tea Cake's death. During Tea Cake's illness is another time that Janie really looks to God to "save" Tea Cake when she looks to the sky, hoping that "it was some big tease" and looking to God to say it's over. I find that she looks to God when big things are happening in her life, unlike what I expected, where it was going to be centered around God, and religion.
I agree Stacy and Ellen and also wanted to point out that while this book was not solely centered around god that they certain reference it many times throughout the book. Since god is so embedded within their culture, he is (besides when something big happens) more of a looming idea, that comes up in regular intervals. For example, when Joe and nanny constantly says "I god-", and "lawd a'mussy" and when the author briefly adds something about Sundays or the church.
Just a short response to Naomi’s comment a long time ago on Janie’s hair being a symbol of her “strength and self identity.”
I had never actually thought about it until now, but that really strikes sense with me. Not only does it exemplify her sense of identity despite who scorn her, because she now realizes that what ever they say can have no real impact on her, but also reflects her confusion as to who she was and wanted to be while under the influence of Joe. As he forces her to cover her hair, he also isolates her and keeps her from discovering for herself what really matters to her.
Also, in response to Alicia's comment on the 25th about Logan's age, I would like to point out that when your younger adults can seem a lot older than they actually are in comparison to oneself. Although your point about Janie actually specifying Joe as younger than Logan and being in his thirties is still completely valid, at the same time Logan has spent most of his life working on a farm as opposed to an office, and because of this he could easily appear older than he actually is.
Despite this, though, I can't see him as being much younger than in his mid-forties, so I completely agree with you that in terms of an age gap, Tea Cake's relationship with Janie can't be that much more farfetched than Logan's.
Zora Neale Hurston was the fifth of eight children born to Lucy and John Hurston on January 7 in 1891. Although Zora was born in Notasulga, Alabama, she felt more at home in Eatonville, Florida, an all-African American town, and so she claimed the latter as her home town.
Her father, John, was the mayor of the town of Eatonville. He was also the Baptist preacher, tenant farmer and a carpenter. His wife, Lucy, was a schoolteacher who died in 1904 when Zora was just 13. John remarried and his new wife sent Zora to a boarding school in Jacksonville, Florida. But she was later expelled because her tuition was not paid.
In 1918 she graduated from Morgan Academy and went to study as an undergraduate at Howard University. She got into Barnard College where she was the only African American student.
Zora married three times. But although she married a few times, she said she only truly loved a man named Percival McGuire Punter. Sadly, it did not work out between them, because Percival wanted Zora to give up her work and move away with him. But Zora’s work was her life, and so they separated.
Zora died on January 28, 1960 at the age of 69 of hypertensive heart disease (high blood pressure). Sadly, she was buried without a grave. But it was possibly discovered in the Garden of Heavenly Rest at Fort Pierce, Florida, by the writer Alice Walker with the help of Charlotte Hunt.
There is an old saying, “Art imitates life.” And in Zora’s case this is true. In "Their Eyes Were Watching God" there are many similarities between Zora and the heroine of the story, Janie. Janie and Zora both call Eatonville home. They were both married three times and they only truly loved the last men they were with. But it didn’t work out for them. In Janie’s case her true love died. In Zora’s case she and her true love separated.
Zora was a great and inspiring writer. And though she is now gone, she will always live on in her writing.
I also thought it would be very religious and noticed that Janie would look to God when in need.
My definition of Faith is when people blindly follow their God(s) and they don't question because that is a sign of commitment. I could ask someone in need "Where is God when you need him?" but turn around and see a number of people only looking at him for assistance. Janie and Tea Cake were searching during the hurricane and "They seemed to be staring at the dark, but their eyes where watching God"(160). Not aware If God was really sparing them a glance they looked for him, even though they can't see him. This leads me to believe Janie always kept God in mind when making life decisions.
I was wondering did you guys ever think about Death's presence in Janie's life? He is mentioned when people she loved have died and occasionally during other times. He is described to have square toes but at the same time I think that he was in the form of the bird that ate the mule. Just as God could be represented through nature(I think at one point Janie hoped God would send a sign from the Sun).
I kinda rumbled on and i feel like i didn't make much sense :( but what do y'all think? Nazshonnii
Appearance seems to be a theme in this novel. I just noticed it while reading about the woman who so looks down on black people. While she is described as rather unattractive, she takes pride in her appearance because she looks white. Her prejudice seems very appearance based, she seems to think that those who look less 'black' are fine (like Janie). Joe looks successful, self confidant, and attractive. His appearance appeals to Janie and makes her proud of him, as well as helping him become in charge of the town. Janie hair, one of her most attractive features, becomes a sign of her freedom and feelings of self-worth. Her headrags become a symbol of Joe's control over her, and when she goes around with her hair downs she is usually feeling free and better about herself, like after Joe dies. How feel about how you look tell a lot about you in this book
This is Carrie. One of the passages that I found interesting was the comparison between nature and caution. Sam Watson and Lige Moss argue about what stops a person from touching a hot stove, nature or caution. Sam says that “‘Nature tells yuh not tuh fool wid no red-hot stove, and you don’t do it neither.’” and Lige points out that “‘. . . if it was nature nobody wouldn’t have tuh look out for babies touchin’ stoves, would they? ‘Cause dey just naturally wouldn’t touch it. But they sho will. So it’s caution.’ ‘Naw it ain’t, it’s nature, cause nature makes caution’” (64-65). As people get older it seems natural to not do dangerous things without a good reason. However, caution is not something that a person is born with. It is learned through experiences when the results from dangerous behavior are directly visible. For example, touching a hot stove and then getting burned. However Sam also has a point: it is natural to learn to be cautious and that one of the reasons that the human race has survived thus far. Caution, like most things, is a natural occurrence, which is why it could be argued that caution ultimately comes from nature. But Sam only uses this as a last resort when he knows that he would lose the argument otherwise, because by saying that “‘nature makes caution’” he is basically saying that caution is what stops someone from touching a hot stove.
Hi everyone! So today I finished the book. It is a little late but oh well. At least I finished. Today I in this entry I am going to compare Janie to the average woman. What baffles about Janie is her ability to be so resistant to depression. When a man leaves a woman in modern day society it is often a reaction to be bed ridden for days. Stereotypically, the woman would eat pints of ice cream, call her friends for moral support and finally drag her butt out of bed and find a rebound. And so the cycle continues. But women especially in Janie's time have immense amounts of courage. More then often they are beaten, verbally abused, ordered around and looked down upon. What is funny to me is that these women are looked to be as weak people, struggling to achieve their number one goal, making their husband happy. But really these women, especially Janie are so strong that they can be beaten, take care of the kids, smile to their guests and please their husbands all in one day. We as women are supposed to be equal to men if not stronger. With all the Women's Rights activists out there you would think that would be true. But in reality we do not have the same strong mentality that Janie and other women in her time possess. A man can strip us down of all self worth. Of course we eventually regain our strong mentality again but Janie is constantly stripped of her self worth whether it be by Tea Cake, Logan or Jody. At the end of the day she can come home and take pleasure in the fact that if forced she could easily live a happy existence on her own. To be a strong women we must all have that mentality. That is one of the many lessons I have learned from Their Eyes Were Watching God.
Lehna Cohen Freshman English Hello again. This is a little awkward considering that my other entry is above this one but whatever. So for this entry I am going to discuss my over all opinion on this book. In the beginning the story it starts off slow with an unknown setting and too much description in insignificant detail. When beginning a story it is important to remember that the reader is coming into a fresh world, not knowing what to expect. It is broad description and attention to who, what, where, when, and how that makes a story easy to follow. As the story went on it got worse before it got better. Everything was just a blurry vision until Janie met Jody. The plot begins to thicken due to Zora's attention to describing the setting. I found the pages turning with a little more ease. My favorite part of Their Eyes Were Watching God was by far when she met Tea Cake. Janie has found her place and you can tell how suddenly the story lifts into a light and airy read. Suddenly you can feel what she feels. The end was unexpected but none the less thrilling and emotional. I was hoping Tea Cake would be able to survive but the story took a turn for the worse. At the end Zora wrapped it up by explaining that Janie was hurt but not broken. Overall the book was mediocre. I would not read this again, but none the less I am glad I finished it. I feel like this book is not for the pleasure of comfortable reading but for the historic events it represents.
By the way I'm writting this on a computer that has a strange keyboard so there might be some spelling mistakes. When Tea Cake came into Janie's life and changed. Tea Cake gave Janie the freedom to do what she wanted. Janie was now allowed to do things she couldn't do before because she always had Joe telling her not to. Janie show's this in this quote "Jody classed me off. Ah didn't. Nah Pheoby Tea Cake ain't draggin me off nowhere I don't want tuh go. Ah always did want to git round uh whole heap, but Jody wouldn't let me. When Ah Wasn't in the store he just wanted me to jes sit der wid folded hands and sit der. And ah'd sit there wid the walls creepin up on me squeezin' all de life outa me. Pheoby, dese educated women got a heap of things to sit down and consider. Nobody ain't told poor me, so sittin' syill worries me. Ah wants tuh utilize mahself all over"(112). In this quote Janie shows she is a lot happier with Tea Cake than she was with Jody. With Tea Cake she finally feels like she can try new things. She feels like Joe oppressed her and Tea Cake treats her like a real person and accepts her as she is. Janie seems to feel like there has to be catch. All other men have treated her horribly and her experience with men prevents Janie from building a strong relationship with Tea Cake. Janie is always scared Tea Cake is going to leave her which forces Tea Cake to be jealous of Janie. Both characters are scared they are going to lose the other one which prevents them from having a strong marriage. The only thing that keeps there marriage going is there strong love for each other. Tea Cake and Janie want to be happy but it's hard because they can't trust each other. Hurston show this in this quote "Before the week was over he had whipped Janie. Not because her behavior justified his jealousy but it relieved that awful fear inside of him. Being able to whip her reassured him in possession" (146). Tea Cake whips Janie cause he's jealous. He needs to feel like he has power over Janie. He doesn't trust that she will stay with him. Their relationship lacks the strong foundation it needs to survive.
In There Eyes Were Watching God there are some specific references to race that start showing up around when Janie is with Joe in Eatonville. Many of the people in the town are somewhat intimidated by Joe as much as they like him, and compare the way he acts superior to white landholders. This comparison is made easier with the creation of the big white house and him taking advantage of his power running a thief out of town. While Joe comes to represent the more extreme side of the freedom to have power, the other side is explained well by Coker: “Us colored folks is too envious of one ‘nother. Dat’s how come us don’t git no further than us do. Us talks about de white man keepin’ us down! Shucks! He don’t have tuh. Us keeps our own selves down (39).” While some people find themselves quickly gaining previously unknown power, others struggle to make a new life for themselves with all the opportunities now available. Only later in the book are there characters that seem centered in themselves, neither held down or put on a pedestal by their own expectations.
I agree with Carrie that caution is learned from experience but it derives from nature. However, that does not necessary mean that its natural to know not to touch a hot stove but the lesson is learned naturally in life. I think an example of cation coming from nature is when the animals head for high ground before the hurricane. The animals being a representation of Nature, and their exodus is a cation label to the humans.
How would he lose the argument when in fact Caution does come from Nature? Nazshonnii
"It was bad enough for white people, but when one of your own color could be so different it put you on a wonder. It was like seeing your sister turn into ‘gator. A familiar strangeness. you keep seeing your sister in the ‘gator and the ‘gator in your sister, and you’d rather not" (48). Although this quote is about racism I'm Thinking that... The familiar strangeness is the trusteed connection that is being interfered by something that is disguised as the other side of the connection. "Your sister" that you love and will try to save is also " the 'Gator" that will kill you. You will begin to sympathize with the beast because you she your sister. Then build distrust with your sister because you see a traitor or trickster. It is only natural to ignore the problem and wish it were not true when such confusion is dropped on you.
Honestly this quote makes me think of the question: Could you kill someone you loved if they were a zombie? My answer would be yes because you would put them out of their misery and weather they are possessed or insane they are simply not themselves. I feel this quote is a foreshadow to the obstacles that Janie later passes. This was similar to when Janie Kills Tea Cake, though she didn't want to kill him but she had to. Her life was put in danger, and it hurt her to take away the person she loved the most. Janie loved Tea Cake to the point she wanted to believe he would only try to scare her not actually pull the trigger. They shared love to die for or that would kill them eventually. Sadly, no matter how willing they were to make that sacrifice, Janie especially was not mentally prepared. It figuratively killed something inside her to literally kill him.
If they were rabid and it was too late would you kill a lover, friend, or family?
I want to add on to what Natalie said a few posts back, about Mrs Turner. She is described as "a milky sort of woman...Her nose was slightly pointed as she was proud Even her buttocks we in basrelief were a source of pride. To her way of thinking all these things set her aside from Negroes," (140). Mrs. Turner has a lot of pride because she has lighter skin than other people, and views herself as superior because of it. On top of feeling superior to other black people, she blatantly dislikes them. She states: "Ah can't stand black niggers. Ah don't blame the white folks from hatin' 'em 'cause Ah can't stand 'em mahself. 'Nother thing, Ah hates tuh see folks lak me and you mixed up wid 'em," (141). Because Janie is also slightly lighter skinned, Mrs. Turner seems to bond with her, sharing her hatred of black people. Not only is this completely irrational, it'd also very ignorant. Rather than being proud of herself and who she really is, she is proud of who she is pretending to be. She almost considers herself as white, and I think she tries to show that by turning against black people, thinking that's the most obvious way to prove it.
I see that some of you guys have briefly mentioned the importance of religion and God in this book. It seems to me that this people really depend on God to guide through out their whole life. And when something bad happens, they respond by saying their fighting against God. For instance when the storm occurs both Janie and Tea Cake say that they are facing against God's will. They don't necessarily say they hate or negate but they emphasis that God is somehow involved in this.
I think Hurston purposely did this to show their culture and believe. Not only that she makes sure that the reader understand how much they worship their religion.
A part in the book that left me confused and upset was when Tea Cake beat Janie. It was passed as so normal I was shocked. How is abusing your wife normal, even during that period of time? “Being able to whip her reassured him in possession. No brutal beating at all. He just slapped her around a bit to show he was boss. (pg 147) Tea Cake always struck me as good man until then. But he still is a good man. He beat her to assure himself he still “owned “ her as a woman which seems wrong to me. “Tea Cake, you sho is a lucky man” Sop-de-Bottom told him “Uh person can see every place you hit her. Ah bet she never raised her hand tuh hit yuh back, neither. Take some uh dense ol’ rusty black women and dey eould fight yuh all night long and next day nobody couldn’t tell you ever hit ‘em. Dat’s de reason Ah done quit beatin’ mah woman. You can’t make no mark on ‘em at all! Lawd! Wouldn’t Ah love tuh whip uh tender woman lak Janie!” (pg 147-148) Nowadays seeing a woman with bruises and beat marks could land a man in jail. It only draws admiration from the people. It shows that a man is powerful and has control of his wife if he beats her and it’s obvious. I think it’s disgusting.
I want to add on to what Simone said, way way back about a significant turning point in Janie’s early life. When she leave Logan, she breaks free from what her Nanny wanted for her and goes after what she wants for herself, because she is unhappy. This does not turn out as she had planned and she falls into a role with Joe Starks that is more like what Nanny had hoped for her and makes Janie very unhappy. With her third marriage Janie makes sure she does not make the same mistake and steps way out of that stereotypical role with Tea Cake, and truly lives out her own dreams.
To add to what Elena said, while I quite agree that it is disgusting, and it is definitely reassuring that we as a society have moved away from such ideals of social normality, just to play devil's advocate (my favorite), can we really judge them for what they thought was okay? I mean, clearly they thought that it was just how they laid down the law in a relationship. Also, the women while they didn't like being hit (that would be masochistic) they seemed to accept it as part of being in a relationship.
“It was so crazy digging worms by lamp light and setting out for Lake Sabelia after midnight that she felt like a child breaking rules. That’s what made Janie like it” (102)
Janie and Tea Cake’s relationship is basically described in this quote. Janie’s childhood was enjoyable, but was somewhat cut short by her marriage to Logan Killicks and was certainly not revived by her marriage to Joe. Tea Cake is the only man to make Janie feel young, which is why their relationship is so precious to him. I also think Janie had become very accustomed to her rigid life with Joe, so the freedom Tea Cake brings is a relief to her. While the freedom and imagination Janie enjoyed as a child aren’t present in her life with Joe, he does treat her a little like a child in that he controls most aspects of her life and doesn’t allow her much decision. Tea Cake at times can be slightly controlling, but for the most part he allows Janie to feel at once imaginative and independent. That balance is a very important part of their relationship, and is one of the main things that attracts Janie to Tea Cake.
Heres a look at a passage that really stood out. “Tea Cake dint say anything against it and Janie herself hurried off. This sickness to her was worse than the storm. As soon as was well out of sight, Tea Cake got up and dumped the water Bucket and washed it clean. Then he struggled to the irrigation pump and filled it again (157).” This stood out to me because I was unsure at first to whom blame fell on. Was it Tea Cake and his sickness that had caused his dysphagia, making him unable to swallow. As we can see of the signs of illness has already set in, Tea Cake at this moment was having trouble with his motor system struggling to get to the water pump and Janie was already struggling to cope with the sickness. Or had recent event really distracted Janie causing her to forget to clean out the water bucket. In the end I put the blame on Tea Cake and his sickness.
I’d like to add on to what Jay said a while back about the passage on page 39. The novel is based soon after the abolition of slavery and African Americans have different feelings about how to act now that they have freedom to choose. Some like Joe, take advantage of it and become very powerful. Others just want to keep to themselves and are stuck in a “low down” role and criticize those like Joe. They are uncomfortable with the change, which keeps them from moving forward and developing their town of Eatonville.
“It’s uh known fact, Pheoby, you got tuh go there tuh know there. Yo’ papa and yo’ mama and nobody else can’t tell yuh and show yuh. Two things everybody’s got tuh do fuh theyselves. They got tuh go tuh God, and they got tuh find out about livin’ fuh themselves.” (192)
At the end of the novel, Janie has really accomplished all that she wanted to from the beginning. As a young girl, she wanted to fall in love and experience life and adventure. As a woman at the end of the novel, she has done all those things. Unfortunately, she didn’t exactly get a happy ending. However, in this quote she basically says that she doesn’t care. Unlike the other people in her town, Janie did something unexpected in marrying and running away with Tea Cake. He didn’t abandon her like everyone thought he would, but she was still alone in the end. Janie still didn’t care though. In this quote, she says she is happy she at least lived her life the way she wanted, and although she may have been hurt by it she still feels it was worth it. She really did “find out about living” for herself, and even if she is alone now at least she’s wiser and knows more about herself than anyone else in the town, married or unmarried.
One of the main conflicts in the story is that Janie is searching for love but it leads her towards men who made it so she couldn’t be free, though it’s only through those relationships that allow her to have the freedom she feels when the story ends. The story about Janie, is one about a woman’s journey to freedom and the events that lead to the final experience of the freedom that she sought. She’s only able to achieve that freedom in the end because of her relationships with the three different men which weren’t exactly the greatest. Through her loss of freedom throughout the story, she is able to complete the journey: “it’s uh known fact, Pheoby, you got tuh go there tuh know there.” (192).
I agree with Simone's last comment about how Janie accomplished everything she wanted to. After Janie's first marriage she lets go of her idea's for how her life should turn out. She really has no plans for what her future should look like, she just really does not want to waste her life. In the end she ends up having experienced so much and getting so much out of her life that she really has nothing to regret. She has lived through good times and bad and she has experience love. I also agree with what Simone said about Janie ending up wise. By allowing herself to live her life and not be held back by what others think she really does learn about herself and about life in general and she probably returns to Eatonville wiser than anyone in the town. I really liked how even though this novel doesn't end with a perfect happy ending that is still isn't sad because even though Janie is alone she is still satisfied with her life.
I'd like to add on to what Jay said a while back about the passage on page 39. The novel is based soon after the abolition of slavery and African Americans have different feelings about how to act now that they have freedom to choose. Some like Joe, take advantage of it and become very powerful. Others just want to keep to themselves and are stuck in a “low down” role and criticize those like Joe. They are uncomfortable with the change, which keeps them from moving forward and developing their town of Eatonville.
One strange thing about the narration of this story is that sections of it are from the point of view of Joe or Tea Cake, while the story as a whole is set up as Janie telling her story to a friend. It's a bit confusing how it's set up as a story of the past, but is then told as if it's the present, and from an often third person point of view. This post might fit better under the plot discussion, but it doesn't actually hurt or effect the plot much at all, other than giving the story a foreshadowing of Tea Cake's death at the beginning and an even wrap up at the end.
I strongly agreed with Elena's post earlier about the section in the novel where Tea Cake beats Janie. While I see Lucas's point that this was, upsettingly, an accepted way to deal with conflict in the relationship, the fervor with which the men talked about Tea Cake beating Janie was sickening. Furthermore, I also think, as Elena said, it was shocking because it was very uncharacteristic of Tea Cake. Hurston writes that he only did it to reassure himself of his power, and it is true that Janie is given a nearly equal amount of power and freedom within this relationship, something that was unusual for women at this time, and maybe this was the only resort Tea Cake could find. However, what is truly disturbing is the passion the men talk about the beating with. They say they would love to beat her, just for the sake of beating a "tender woman," which just seems morally wrong.
To me, Zora Neale Hurston employs a curious sense of irony in this novel. It would seem to me that Janie moves through life much in reverse from how we imagine it today. While many of us consider wanderlust to be a quality of the young, Janie begins to experience a free-ranging lifestyle much later in her life. While many people in our society grow more conservative, socially and otherwise as they age, Janie seems more liberated by the decade. By the conclusion of the novel, Janie has returned to the freedom she so wanted as a child, now fully able to understand what is available, having gained wisdom.
This is Carrie. A part of the book that I liked is after Jody died and all the men started flocking toward Janie, expressing their concerns for she well being. Janie responds to their concern by laughing “at all these well-wishers because she knew that they knew plenty of women alone; that she was not the one they had ever seen. But most of them were poor. Besides she liked being lonesome for a change. This freedom feeling was fine. These men didn’t represent a thing she wanted to know about… She felt like slapping some of them for… trying to make out like they love her” (90). After Jody’s death men see her as a way to get rich quick. They fall behind useless platitudes and say that women are not meant to be alone and cannot take care of themselves. However, this woman that they make her out to be, a weak and reliant girl who cannot stand on her own two feet. This girl has never been Janie; she earns her keep and has changed her own life. They pretend that they want to marry her for her own sake but that is a lie. She is beautiful and rich, they have seen her listen to Jody and argue even when he insults her (with a few prominent exceptions) and support him for twenty years. But now she has tasted freedom and will not be so easily controlled again.
In response to Stacy’s post (on Aug 15): I completely agree with this, I also wondered why after 20 years of marriage they never had children even though they, as you so aptly put it, had “sexual relations.” And this made me wonder why this was. It is possible they were unable to have children, if fate just worked that way and Janie never ended up getting pregnant, if she had miscarriages that were never mentioned, they were quite common and if hey happen early enough it is possible to not even know that you had one, or if they were very careful for Janie not to get pregnant.
It is strange that they never mentioned any children, or the possibility of any. If Janie did happen to get pregnant, it would have taken out her later days of wandering, unless she got pregnant while with Tea Cake. It seems like either she didn't have children because the plot would be too effected, or the plot was partly shaped by the fact that she didn't. In any case, if she had gotten a child the later realization of freedom would not have happened, and that seems to be one of the main points of the story.
While the novel is power and well-written, I find the concluding section among the most effective. Janie’s story to that point has been one of enormous self-discovery and transformation. Moving as that is, the act of understanding and relating her journey allows the reader to finally understand many of the lessons and metaphors. Like a hero of folklore, Janie has traveled beyond the horizon to places completely unlike her home. She has faced the destructive power of nature, the avarice and ego-mania of people, and found ways to remove these forces from her life. When returning to the town, her story is unknown and she is mis-judged by her former friends. Janie’s story makes her friend Pheoby feel greatly uplifted and creates a desire to experience the same kind of freedom that Janie created for herself. (192). Much like any folklore hero, Janie has returned to her previous world having gained knowledge far beyond the everyday. Their Eyes Were Watching God, is among other things a meditation on the role myth and lore play in shaping cultures and identities. Just as Janie’s life is represented by the horizon and the peach tree, others will use her to represent their own life.
Although nature and "ideal love" are both main themes of this book, there is one theme that becomes overshadowed by these two, and I think that it was the most interesting of the three to track: jealousy. Jealousy usually accompanies the ideal love that Janie is striving to find. "That was because Joe never told Janie how jealous he was. He never told her how often he had seen the other men figuratively wallowing in it as she went about things in the store." (p 55). This passage is followed by a man touching Janie's hair without her knowing it, and Joe makes Janie tie up her hair whenever she is in the store. In this book, Jealousy is never without consequence. In this example, she loses the ability to wear her hair down, which I believe symbolizes her freedom. When Tea Cake suspects Janie of being interested in Ms. Turner's brother, he beats her. In every instance, jealousy leads to some part of Janie's freedom being taken away, which is wrong because she is never at fault. The people who are jealous have only empty notions.
I know some of you have blogged/commented on religion in the book already, but I also want to go into it myself. Now to comment on Ellen's blog about the title and having the idea that religion would be the main theme in the book, it turns out that it was a minor theme. Religion was mostly linked to nature, and in Abraham's comment about the hurricane on how the people said they were fighting against God instead of saying fighting against mother nature. The people in Eatonville depend on God. It's like saying God did this or God sent them here or there and now they have to finish the job or find thier way to the end of the trail.
One point in the book I found notable was the impact of Janie's grandmother. Her grandmother was the indirect source of all of Janie's problems. The obvious irony is that Janie's grandmother had the best intentions in mind. However, the decisions made by her grandmother end up leading Janie to become resentful of her situation. Janie's grandmother meant no harm, and was simply trying to prevent Janie from having to go through the ordeals that she had experienced. Janie has other ideas of what she wants from life, and is not content with setting aside her desire to explore life. Janie's grandmother assumes she knows the best for Janie, and objectifies her as an innocent child who needs protection. She never really knows Janie as a person, so her well-meant actions end up propelling Janie into her discontent.
In response to Carrie and Stacy, perhaps Janie not having a child was another way of her defying the norm for women of that era. It seemed that Janie did not really have a plan for her life, as many around her wanted her to. However, she simply wanted to be satisfied with her life, and if that happened to include a child, I'm sure she would have welcomed it. With Joe, as Stacy quoted, "The spirit of the marriage left the bedroom and took to living in the parlor... It never went back inside the bedroom again" (71). Therefore, the possibility of a child with Joe nearly completely dwindled. I do feel that Janie and Tea Cake could have been happy with a child, yet unfortunately there was not enough time in the relationship. They seemed to still be in that young-lover, exciting, honeymoon stage when Tea Cake was killed, sadly ending all chances of a child.
Gabe, there was one instance where Janie was jealous too. "Janie learned what it felt like to be jealous. A little chunky girl took to picking a play out of Tea Cake in the fields and in the quarters." (136)
I wasn't sure exactly what category to put this in, so I decided I'd be safe and put it here.
Throughout the book, Janie is practically thrown around by the people in her life. She never ever truly get's the luxury of making her own decisions regarding her life. This is all true, until she meets Tea Cake. When he stumbled into her life, he sort of acted as her savior. Their relationship almost seemed fairy tale like, as he so gently took her in his arms and made her life what it should have been all along. There are many reasons why Tea Cake is the perfect match for Janie. For one, he is young. To some people, this poses as a problem, because of Janie's place in society. But for Janie, it's perfect. She grew up way, way too fast, with no time to be a child. Tea Cake shows her how to live her life to the fullest way possible, even though she's a grown adult. Unlike most people of the time, he treats her with respect, and allows her the same privileges as any other man. In a way, Tea Cake is the childhood she never had.
Caleb; It is true that the grandmother's intentions were not what Janie wanted, and were forced upon her, causing her unhappiness, but they also caused her to have a place to stay after her Nanny's passing, and some form of guaranteed livelihood. Without having married Logan, Janie would have been completely alone, still a child, with little discipline and little means of making a living. Sixteen-year-old Janie is not the capable, independent woman she became after Joe's death, nor would she have started with the store and the house. This is not to say that marrying Logan was the only option; Janie and her grandmother most likely could have found an alternative to prepare for Nanny's death, and I do think Nanny could have listened to Janie's thoughts and looked at alternatives, but I don't think Nanny was the root of all of Janie's problems.
Then you must tell ’em dat love ain’t somethin’ lak uh grindstone dat’s de same thing everywhere and do de same thing tuh everything it touch. Love is lak de sea. It’s uh movin’ thing, but still and all, it takes its shape from de shores it meets, and it’s different with every shore”(191).
From all her experience gained from sweet and hurtful encounters, Janie tells Phoeby what she has learned about love. She explains to her that love is not the same for every relationship, and in her case the others would think Janie’s leap for love was a fail. When in fact Janie seems to have left the relationship with more happiness than in her youthful years. the simile “love is lak the sea” is used to show that love has no fixed shape or volume like water. Love is what people or “shores” makes it and there is no person or shore in the world exactly same. Janie and Tea Cake formed a love that others were to blind to see because of their prediction that she would end up like Ms.Tyler.
I'd like to point out a connection I found in the novel.
On p. 159, when the hurricane is about to destroy Janie and Tea Cake's home, Janie says to him, "People don't die till dey time come nohow, don't keer where you at". My insight told me that this quote basically means, that when a person's time to die comes, whenever it may be, it will happen. And that also means that they've had their time on this earth, and have accomplished what they were supposed to. Janie and Tea Cake obviously came out of the storm unscathed, so it wasn't her time to go.
But on p. 193, when Janie has lost Tea Cake, lived a full and long life, and is still alive to tell her former friends about it, it seems as if it's her time to pass. I'm not sure if that's what the author intended, but it's what I got out of the last passage.
I agree, everyone has a different way to love and expresses it differently. "love is lak the sea" could also mean that depending on where you stand on the shore, you have a different view of the sea. In other words, depending on your situation, you could have a different point of view of love.
That makes sense. Janie has stood from three different viewpoints in relationships. She has changed and mature from each relationship and it seems that her sight gets clearer each time. The second marriage was an impulse to get out of wasting her life away. Her running away with Tea Cake was to finally love once she realized where to find it. She realized what she was missing she when she found Tea Cake.
“They sat in company with the others in other shanties, their eyes straining against crude walls and their soul asking if He meant to measure their puny might’s against His. They seemed to be staring at the dark, but their eyes were watching god” (p160) I think is not only a note worthy quote but also the title of the book so I wanted to write about it. Therefore, I think that this summarizes the struggles of the novel and of Janie’s life. It is humans against god in the world and the people are praying while a horrendous storm is taking place outside and Tea Cake and Janie have just realized their true love for each other which helps them survive. They need each other to survive. Tea Cake however, is the only husband Janie marries that she can truly love because of the utmost respect he has for her. Tea Cake allows Janie to preserve through many “storms” physical and emotional this is a very good thing in the novel however; Janie has to be single in order to realize and get her true dream of being fully independent and shoots Tea Cake.
While I agree that Janie's tale does inspire Phoebe, I dont think that it reaches quite the mythic proportions that you hint at. If anything, its apparent that Janie is trying to be as nonchalant and humble as possible with her story to make it as relatable and palatble to the townsfolk. Janie is more of a n inspiring individual than a rebellious folk hero.
Andrew, I hadn't looked at it that way, thank you for pointing it out. It is as though she is becoming more and more free, without needing to carry out the wishes of those around her if she chooses not to.
Yeah, Andrew, that was really well put. I think that that quote plays itself out throughout the book a lot, and not just from Janie's viewpoint. We get small different viewpoints of other relationships besides her's often, whether it be Phoebe's with Sam or Mrs. and Mr. Turner's. I think it gives the reader a good look into the dynamics of relationships that otherwise wouldn't be considered, and also provokes their own mind about what they look for in a relationship. Just my two-cents.
I agree with Simone that Janie is attracted to Tea Cake for the youthful feelings that he brings her. In the novel great glorification is placed upon being young. This in contrast to many Asian cultures where elders are revered and treated with more respect. Toward the end of Janie's marriage with Starks, he frequently puts her down buy bringing up her age. While in a fight, Starks says to her "Nobody in heah ain't looking' for no wife outa yuh. Old as you is." (79). Even Phoeby says to Janie "Ah who hope you ain't laka possum--de older you gits, de less sense yuh got." (113).
Hi everyone!Shapari here (Shopz). At first, Their Eyes Were Watching God was boring and confusing for me. I didn’t understand what the characters were saying and who was talking when. After I got about halfway in to the book, I started understanding and appreciating it more. When the hurricane came I was most in to the book. The way everybody was fighting for their lives was very intriguing and kept me wanting to read more and more. From the hurricane until the end of the book, I didn’t want to put the book down. I loved the way the author put the title, Their Eyes Were Watching God, in to the text because it really went with the whole setting. They were in the flood fighting to stay alive. And throughout the book, their eyes were indeed watching God.
I guess this is where a comment about favorite passages can go! My favorite passage in the novel so far occurred in the beginning. It takes place when Janie is sitting under her blooming pear tree wishing that she could be that tree. I just thought the imagery was so beautiful.
ReplyDelete"So Janie waited a bloom time, and a green time and an orange time. But when the pollen again guilded the sun and sifted down on the world she began to stand around the gate and expect things. What things? She didn't know exactly...The familiar people and things had failed her so she hung over the gate and looked up the road towards way off. She knew now that marriage did not make love. Janie's first dream was dead, so she became a woman" (25).
This has been my favorite quote because it is simply wonderful. The image of pear blossoms reminds me of the innocence that youth brings. The idea of becoming a woman because her dream has been destroyed is such a complex idea. Much like the pear blossoms and their pollen, Janie has to learn to go with the wind, role with the punches. When the pollen is dispersed through the air, Janie knows that time has run out for love and that she must grow up.
I think the line "Janie's first dream was dead, so she became a woman" refers both to growing up and leaving childhood dreams behind and to the opening passage in the book. To me the opening passage seems to imply that the lives of men are governed by dreams and desires, whereas women are more grounded in reality and accept what has happened to them or else chose to forget. This way of looking at the world may also be caused by the fact that women, and particularly African American women have much less control over their lives in the time period this book is set in and therefore having their dream of life be the truth makes more sense then dreaming of a "ship at a distance" or something more unlikely to come true. Men, who have more control over their fate dream of things that may come true with work, while women satisfy themselves with reality.
ReplyDeleteUsing this interpretation of the beginning passage, when Janie's first dream, of love being created by marriage, dies, she becomes a woman because she has learned that women must accept the truth and shape their dreams to it. She also becomes an adult in learning that not all of her childhood dreams are true.
Hey it's Isaiah again. I would just like to say that I enjoy the humor that Hurston slips in to some of the passages that seem quite tense in the story such as when Janie seems frustrated by her Grandmother’s (Nanny) decision to try and marry her away. But Nanny thinks the idea is good because she thinks Janie is at the height of her womanhood and needs to settle down. These thoughts that Nanny proposed spawned from when she caught Janie kissing “shiftless” Johnny Taylor. Nanny finally marries her to Mr. Killicks but Janie doesn’t love him because, as she tells Nanny: “ …’Cause Ah hates de way his head is so long one way and so flat on de sides and dat pone uh fat uh his neck”. Nanny’s thoughts on her reason of not loving him is silly since it sounds to her that she doesn’t love him because of his head to which she tells Janie “He never made his own head. You talk so silly”. Janie doesn’t just stop at just talking about disliking his head however, she continues on even describing his toe nails, saying “his toe-nails look lak mules foots.” Though the passage is one of the tension points in the story Hurston lightens it slightly with adding puns like talking about his neck, belly and even his toe nails. (quotations extracted from p.24)
ReplyDeleteOkay, I like this topic of “favorite quotes”, and my first couple of favorite quotes came right off the bat and definitely made me interested with the rest of the story, and frankly, these are the type of quotes that people should use more often. They would make things much more dramatic.
ReplyDeleteOkay, so two of my favorite phrases thus far in the book were, “She had come back from the sodden and the bloated; sudden death, there eyes flung open in judgment.” (1) and “They became lords of lesser things. They passed nations through their mouths. They sat in judgment.” (1)
The reason I like the first quote is that it has such descriptive qualities, and really lets you see those dead peoples faces. The image of just these corpses with this look of surprise and pain is really powerful and allows you to really get into the book and feel the horror of death.
The second quote I found very interesting, and really tells a whole lot about the people and who they are. I felt that this quote was a good example of beautiful language, especially the part about “They passed nations through their mouths.” which shows, that they don't just talk about nothing, or things of unimportance, but entire nations.
Hi, it's Levin. One quote that stuck with me was the the quote: "Janie did what she had never done before, that is, thrust herself into the conversation". I enjoyed this quote because I felt like it really incaptured the fact that she both had never thrust herself into a conversation before, and also that she was doing this now. Which brings us to a cool concept, which is the concept of trying new things. While this concept is sometimes thought of as simple, in our society people rarely do this, and instead fit into niches in which they only very slowly expand their firmly established horizons. The choice to use the word “thrust” was interesting to me because It seems to really promote the feeling of sudden, forceful implication of an unexplored concept. I think that although this quote is simplistic, a lot more is said within the quote by language choice than many would imagine.
ReplyDeleteThis is Carrie. One of the things that I found the most interesting is what different characters believe makes you a woman. Nanny believes that kissing someone makes you a woman, and she is partially right. Kissing someone will make you appear to be a woman, and will make the consequences that apply to grown-ups apply to you. However even if Janie was a grown-up on the outside she is still clearly a child on the inside as shown by her believe in every thing she is told. Including that “she would come to love Logan after they were married. She could see no way for it to come about, but Nanny and the old folks had said it, so it must be so. Husbands and wives always loved each other, and that was what marriage meant. It was just so” (21). This quote proves that she is mentally still a child, she blindly believes everything she is told even though she has no evidence to prove any of it. Like a child she is full of hope and optimism and does as she is told. After all she no reason to doubt their words because no one in her family is married so she has never seen the down sides to a marriage. She assumes that all marriages are happy and does what she is told. After she is married she expects everything she was told to come true, but it doesn’t. She learns that things are not always as you are told and “that marriage does not make love. Janie’s first dream was dead, so she became a woman” (25).
ReplyDeleteI’m only a few chapters into the book but one thing I’ve noticed which may seem pretty obvious is the symbol of the tree. After Janie sits under the pear tree that moment of happiness becomes her ideal image of life. From that point on she seems to compare everything to that one moment. She especially uses that moment as her model for how she believes marriage and love should feel. When complaining about her husband she says, “[A]h wants things sweet wid mah marriage lak when you sit under a pear tree and think” (24). Her memory of the pear tree seems to be one of her happiest memories and also happens to be from the same day as her first somewhat romantic experience which was kissing Johnny Taylor. This explains why she relates this idea of the tree to relationships and how they should work. She wants a marriage just as ‘sweet’ as her memory of that day. The symbol of the tree is also often used by the narrator. An example of this is when Janie first meets Joe Starks. The narrator specifically says that they “sat under the tree and talked”(29). This sounds like it is just a simple description of the setting but I took it to mean that Joe would be an ideal man for her. He fit right into her picture of happiness. (keep in mind I don’t know if their relationship works out or not yet).
ReplyDeleteI have finished the book and really enjoyed it, but was struck by how I had been told it was a story with themes of racial oppression, when I think this book is a story of racial empowerment spawned from oppression. An example is the building of an all African-American town. Though slavery had ended quite a few years before, the descendants of the slaves were still treated poorly and as if they were incompetent and could not form a functioning society of their own. The building of their own town shows that they can do things for themselves. Also the fact that there are few white characters to influence the storyline makes a difference in the presence of the existing class issues. I do have to acknowledge the shadow of racial inequality that is present throughout the book, but despite this the people seem more or less content with their lives. There are a few references to classism and how “the white people are superior”. This mindset stems from oppression, but the characters in this book do not live in fear, they just regard the white people as all-knowing superiors who are best to avoid. There is no overpowering force of racial hatred, just a few events that are quickly fixed. For instance, Mrs. Turner makes racist comments about Tea Cake and how dark he is. After Tea Cake has his revenge on her and shows she cannot speak prejudice without consequence, they are not bothered by her again. This action shows that Tea Cake and the others are not beaten down enough to sit and take hateful comments quietly. Though at the beginning there is some talk of racial oppression, the major theme is racial empowerment.
ReplyDeleteI always find some way to mess up a post in this....
ReplyDeleteZora Neal Hurston's writing masterfully throws the reader into the story by using appropriate language and vivid and descriptive narrative. While this passage is from early on in the story, it is significant because it introduces the reader to Hurston's style. Hurston's word play and style requires that the reader fully engage themselves in reading and pick apart everything that she trying to say. “So they chewed up the back parts of their minds and swallowed with relish. They made burning statements with questions, and killing tools out of laughs. It was mass cruelty. A mood come alive. Words walking without masters; walking altogether like harmony in a song” (2). This passage uses colorful language that really adds a 'mood' to the writing. It also presents the strong character of the community as a whole which is important, and it also sets up the first dialogue which is significant. This passage also sets up theme of gossip as well as the challenges and trials that Janie will have to face in order to find herself.
“. . . so full of crumbling dissolution, --that Janie had believed that Nanny had not seen her. So she extended herself outside of her dream and went inside the house. That was the end of her childhood”(12).
ReplyDeleteThis quote is like two sides of a coin. At first the reader infers that the 'ending of childhood' refers to Janie, and the dream's end refers to Nanny. I feel like it goes both ways. The ending of Janie's childhood seems more important to Nanny, meanwhile taking care of Janie as if she were her own. This relationship serves as a second-chance to motherhood for Nanny, while being a little over-protective of her granddaughter. While the kissing-over-the-gate scene (10-12) signified to Nanny that it was the end of Janie's childhood, it did not symbolize the same thing for Janie. Janie felt ashamed that Nanny made such a big deal out of it, and to Janie the kiss did not mean she was ready to be married. “Ah don't love him at all. . . Please don't make me marry Mr. Killicks”(15).
It seems to me that Nanny wants it to be one or the other, Janie lives as a baby or an adult; rocking Janie in her arms one second, then forcing her into marriage the next. Hurston describes Nanny's plight, “They diffused and melted Janie, the room and the world into one comprehension. . . 'Youse uh woman now, so. . . .'”(12). Nanny's reaction made it seem like this kiss was the worst thing Janie could ever do, “She slapped the girls face violently. . . . Old Nanny sat there rocking her like and infant,”(14, 16). Neither of them were ready for Janie to grow up yet or for Nanny let her, and Janie proves this by letting Nanny treat her as a child.
The second part of the quote, (“. . . extended herself outside of the dream and went into the house”) is very literal assuming Hurston is only referring to Nanny waking up and walking around the house. As Nanny awakens from her dream, Janie is experiencing one of her own coming true. Janie then enters the house and is taken aback by Nanny's act of informing Janie that she is no longer a child. Hurston opens two sets of eyes.
--Aleia
“So when we looked at de picture and everybody got pointed o ut there wasn’t nobody left except a real dark little girl with long hair standing by Eleanor. Dat’s where Ah wuz s’posed to be, but Ah couldn’t recognize dat dark chile as me. So Ah Ast, ‘where is me? Ah don’t see me.’ (9)”
ReplyDeleteI choose this passage because it brought forward a issue of accepting oneself, that still exist nowadays. The trouble she had finding herself can foreshadow to her not fitting in or being partially accepted by others. I can imagine how Janie feels being a little black girl brought up in a white society. It is understandable why she made the assumption that she was not the dark one in the photo. Given that her grandmother works around Caucasian people, and she did not grow around children like her but instead other white children. She became comfortable in that environment yet was treated different by other dark little girls at her school. Having been brought up in one setting then out in another to learn confused young Janie and caused her to not identify herself.
My Connection comes from being born from parents of two different sides has made my experiences life quite interesting. My mother being dark skinned with wooly hair. My father being little light skinned with bone straight hair. Even after the doctors witnessed my birth they tried to say I was not her child because I was too pale. Throughout my life with my mother similar events happened because people couldn’t believe a light skinned golden haired child could come from my mother. This made me feel embarrassed often until I realized I should live my life to please others. This recollection of her childhood shows that Janie has lived past what others think of her, when being juxtaposed to the time she ignored the woman bombarding her after returning home.
I apologize for posting this late because I just now gained internet access.
N Brown-Almaweri
In response to Hero’s comment:
ReplyDeleteI agree with the fact that Hurston’s use of imagery in between some of the events in the story shows an aesthetic quality, which also contrasts the harsh reality of Janie’s relationship with men and her grandmother. Although nature does not serve as a significance in the plot of the book (at least from what I’ve read so far), Hurston seems to provide detail to describe the delicateness of her surroundings that seem to bring about questions within her life, as well as to provide a peaceful setting, in which Janie can relax.
Carrie,
ReplyDeleteI think you bring up some very interesting points. I agree with you that although Nanny believes that kissing a boy turns Janie into a woman, it is evident that in other ways she is still very much a child. I like how you brought up Janie's assumption that marriage means that you automatically love the person once married even if you do not truly know them and how she could not really help but assume that as she had never first-handedly witnessed an effective marriage. I agree that this shows her unawareness and lack of experience in the world to know how certian things work. I found that your quote that states how Janie's "first dream was dead" and how she then becomes a woman, which I had not thought about too very much extent when reading, points out how she has grown and now better understands the concept of marriage and love.
(This is for the Lit. class' blog assignment. I found this passage sort of intriguing)
ReplyDeleteAt the beginning of Their Eyes Were Watching God, we are briefly introduced to a middle-aged Janie, wise and independent, who begins to describe her life as a story to her friend. But as her tale progresses, the narrative voice develops into a hybrid of Janie and Hurston. By the time we are presented with an adolescent Janie, this voice serves as a mature standpoint from which the young Janie’s experiences, hopes, and realizations appear innocent and even naïve. Though unfamiliar with womanhood, Janie, at the height of her adolescent blossoming and self-discovery, is in fact more powerful and aware than she may ever be: unlike her grandmother, she is not yet held back by societal expectations of women. In the following passage, we experience Janie’s feeling of eagerness, desperation, and longing for something perhaps only tangible to her in nature:
“After a while she got up from where she was and went over the little garden field entire. She was seeking conformation of the voice and vision, and everywhere she found and acknowledged answers. A personal answer for all other creations except herself. She felt an answer seeking her, but where? When? How? She found herself at the kitchen door and stumbled inside. In the air of the room were flies tumbling and singing, marrying and giving in marriage. When she reached the narrow hallway she was reminded that her grandmother was home with a sick headache. She was lying across the bed asleep so Janie tipped on out the front door. Oh to be a pear tree—any tree in bloom! She was sixteen. She had glossy leaves and bursting buds and she wanted to struggle with life but it seemed to elude her. Where were all the singing bees for her? Nothing on the place nor in her grandma’s house answered her. She searched as much of the world as she could from the top of the front steps and then went down to the front gate and leaned over to gaze up and down the road. Looking, waiting, breathing short with impatience. Waiting for the world to be made.” (11)
In this passage, Janie observes with envy nature’s easily acquired answers, how its growth is a cyclic and constant promise. She longs for this natural and beautiful process and burgeoning to manifest itself into her own life, to answer her own, human questions and satisfy her elusive desires. Just as both the flowers and the bees are sustained with the blooming of the flowers themselves, Janie feels her own blossoming is necessary for her to truly “struggle with life”. But she questions the lack of her own blossoming, as well as a partner in this flourishing: she wonders, “Where were all the bees singing for her?” Perhaps she is longing for romance, as many adolescents do: for instance, she relates the interaction between the flies as a marriage (“In the air of the room were flies tumbling and singing, marrying and giving in marriage”). Soon, however, Janie’s view of marriage and love is to be altered when Nanna insists she marry—not for love, but for protection, challenging Janie’s vague but romantic interpretation of “marriage”. Janie’s budding world of adolescence is not ended by womanhood, but by the expectations that accompany womanhood for an African American woman during her time.
Throughout reading the first chapters of the book I noticed lots of references to a "donkey" could it be referring to a person or just the animal in general in relation to the story?
ReplyDeleteThere are a lot of ongoing themes I've noticed so far in the book, mostly about either the divergent views of men and women, their expectations, or about love and the concept of a perfect union. Here are what I've compiled so far (note: I have not had that much time to read and I am not very far in the book):
ReplyDeleteTheme 1: The different views and relationships of between men and women
This shows up a lot throughout the book and is one of the main themes; for example the opening two paragraphs: "Ships at a distance have every man's wish on board. For some they come with the tide. For others they sail forever on the horizon, never out of sight, never landing until the Watcher turns his eyes away in resignation, his dreams mocked to death by Time. That is the life of men. Now women forget all those things they don't want to remember, and remember everything they don't want to forget. The dream is the truth. They act and do things accordingly." This shows some of the disparate views between men and women. Also, when Janie comes home from the Everglades, the men see the beautiful aspects of her countenance and figure, while the women see all her flaws. This theme is also predominant in her love life, for example with Logan, who thinks women should be obedient and loyal to her husband while Janie thinks women should be independent. Not all women feel this way, but their views certainly differ, which eventually forces Janie to leave Logan, driving the plot onward.
Theme 2: people's expectations/stereotypes about how black women should behave and how Janie manages to surpass them
One of the examples of this in the book is Nanny's expectations that Janie needs to be protected and needs to be shown the right direction, when Janie in fact turns out to be pure and independent, who in no way needs outside help in her pursuit of happiness.
Theme 3: the tree of life and its similarity to people's lives
This is something Janie often relates to, some of her philosophical thoughts. She sees "her life like a great tree in leaf with the things suffered, things enjoyed, things done and undone. Dawn and doom was in the branches."
Theme 4: the concept of a perfect union
This is probably the theme that drives the plot the most because this is what Janie aspires to find, her pursuit of happiness and contentment with her situation, both physically and mentally. This concept first shows itself to her when the bee comes and pollenates the flower, when she kisses Johnny Taylor. She truly realizes its importance when she marries Logan Killicks and is so unhappy. She runs away with Joe Starks and continues with her life in this fashion to find that perfect union.
Theme 5: the stages of love/how love changes people's views
This happens with all the men she falls in love with, and a bit with her as well. At first, the man in love (for example, Logan Killicks) will dote on Janie and give her anything she desires. With Logan, where she does not love him, she is uncomfortable with this. With Joe, however, where love is involved, she likes this and runs off with him, only to become uncomfortable with it once more. After a while, Logan tires of this and complains endlessly about her independence and why she does not help around the estate. This is also why she runs away with Joe.
Not very far in the book, but I would also like to talk about a theme I thought was interesting, which is the theme of "steering one's course":
ReplyDeleteJanie, though independent at heart, is under the control of male dominance and mysogyny. She craves a life in which she is the master of her ship, in which she herself can make choices that determine her course. Although it is possible Janie could never completely fulfill this wish, her town of New Eden is a place in which African Americans can finally create their own haven. Hurston, in fact, begins the book with this theme of motivation and initiative in mind, writing: “Now, women forget all those things they don’t want to remember, and remember everything they don’t want to forget. The dream is the truth. Then they act and do things accordingly” (1). However, she states that women are in fact capable of doing so, as compared to men--even if it is difficult or uncommon. But in the following passage, Joe, Janie’s husband and the mayor of this budding “Eden”, communicates this theme of exertion: “Folkses, de sun is goin’ down. De Sun-maker brings it up in de mornin’, and de Sun-maker sends it tuh bed at night. Us poor weak humans can’t do nothin’ tuh hurry it up nor to slow it down. All we can do, if we want any light after de settin’ or befo’ the risin’, is tuh make some light ourselves” (45).
Though he is referring to the newly installed town-lamppost, hidden in Joe’s language is a strong statement about creating one’s own happiness or one’s own “light”. The town is perhaps a manifestation of this idea, as the inhabitants attempt to create a santuary of equality and fulfillment, something that the African American community lacked so greatly. This quote and overall theme poses the questions: “Will Janie take this idea into account and attempt to seek out her own happiness and accomplish her goals? How will this theme present itself as the book progresses?”. These inquiries, along with this text, may help the reader become more aware of this idea as well as Hurston’s intended messages.
I just thought I would mention something that I found interesting while reading the book which was how Janie switched to Tea Cake so fast from her previous spouse in what seemed like a fairly short span of time. Could it be just a mental thing? or could she be wanting something more?
ReplyDeleteHi this is Annie Murray. Sorry it was late, I've been busy with work lately. I guess this is where we're supposed to put our substantive posts so here it goes.
ReplyDelete"Janie saw her life like a great tree in leaf with the things suffered, things enjoyed, things done and undone. Dawn and doom was in the branches." (8)
Janie begins telling Pheoby her story. She tells her all about how her grandma, Nanny, raised her in West Florida with white people, the Washburns. Because Janie was always around white people, she never knew that she was black. Mrs. Washburn dressed Janie in her children's old clothes (which were nicer than the clothes of Janie's black schoolmates). Janie was called "alphabet" because people called her all different sorts of names. It was only until she saw a picture one day of all of the children that she realized that she was the black little girl. When she was a teenager, 16 years old, she used to sit under the pear tree and dream about being a tree in bloom. She longs for something more. When she is 16, she kisses Johnny Taylor to see if this is what she longs for. Nanny sees her kiss him, and says that Janie is now a woman. The quote metaphorically implies that innocence and womanhood cannot exist simultaneously, which is something the narrator struggles with throughout the novel.
One thing I’ve noticed throughout the book is the use of the words “in judgment” or just “judgement.” I saw it used quite a lot at the very beginning of the book, and then a few times later on. The word is usually used to describe being seen before the Judgment of God upon one’s deathbed, but is also used differently, like at the very beginning of the book, where its use confuses me. A dead body is described as having its eyes “flung open in judgment” (1) and the people of the town that Janie is returning to are said to be sitting “in judgment.” (1). These two uses of the phrase confuse and interest me. I’m hoping that some discussion can be started over this.
ReplyDeleteOne passage that I found interesting occurs in the middle of the book, after the death of Joe Starks. The passage implies that Joe’s death gives Janie a more positive outlook on her own life because she no longer has to struggle with someone who tries to control and abuse her. The feeling of being alone (in this case separated from men) entices in her a feeling of happiness that she thought that she would find if she were married. “Besides she liked being lonesome for a change. This freedom feeling was fine. These men didn’t represent a thing she wanted to know about” (90). The passage illustrates a change in Janie’s opinion about being happy from the beginning of the book because she found joy in “being lonesome” (90). We see Janie find happiness not because of marriage, but because she has the freedom to do what she pleases, without fear of consequence. The passage stood out to me because early in the novel, she is clearly focused on finding a husband and finding love. However, her reflection on the terrible relationships she has gone through with Logan and Joe has caused her to rebel against her previous feelings about living a happy marriage. However, her inability to express her personal ideals while married showed me that her views can be overshadowed by those of her grandmother and by the appearance of a man that she finds attractive.
ReplyDeleteHey guys, its Kira. I’m going to talk about Janie, and the fact that she has multiple people looking out for her with her ultimate happiness in mind; she continues to find her way into unhappy situations. Now, I’m not saying that this is her fault. It isn’t. However, Janie does things, and takes certain actions that are believed to make her happier. At the point in the book where I am, it usually backfires.
ReplyDeleteIt starts with Nanny forcing the marriage of Janie and Logan. Nanny wants to have the peace of mind that Janie is in the hands of a caring, capable, and loving man. Janie doesn’t want to marry Logan at first, but agrees for Nanny’s sake. Nanny does this for her peace of mind and Janie’s happiness, and in the end it just makes Janie unhappy, to the point of running away from it all. On page fifteen, Nanny says, “Tain’t Logan Killicks Ah wants you to have, baby, its protection”. Nanny, at this point, wants happiness, love, and protection for Janie, but protection is the most important of the three.
This comes up again around page sixty. After the mule passes away, there’s a “dragging-out” for the carcass. At this point, Joe is mayor of the small town and Janie is his wife. Janie is lacking in activities for the day, and asks Joe if she can come with him. Joe, surprised at her request, says “….But de Mayor’s wife is somethin’ different again…..But you ain’t goin’ off in all dat mess uh commonness. Ah’m surprised at yuh fuh askin’.” (60). For many, a place of such honor, such as the mayor’s wife position which Janie holds, would be very exciting. However, this position just keeps Janie from doing the things she wants to do. While this would be easy to do regardless, she has Joe, her husband, controlling her life and actions.
Janie marries both Logan and Joe because she believes it will make her happy. The promises of happiness from Nanny and Joe before these actions were taken only convinced Janie that it was the right thing to do. These decisions can be passed off as simple honest mistakes, with misplaced care. Hopefully the rest of the book will include some true happiness for Janie.
I was very struck by the passage on page 90 that talks about Janie’s love and view on mankind after the recent death of her husband, Joe Starks. It starts off with “Most humans didn’t love one another nohow, and this mislove was so strong that even common blood couldn’t overcome it all the time” and ends with “Like all the tumbling mud-balls, Janie had tried to show her shine”. The passage sounds as though it is coming from the mouth of a Southern preacher. The components of the allegory are very organic and there are many reiterations about diamonds, singing, mud and sparks. I believe that the passage is trying to convey that all humans are inherently good despite the chaos and hardships of everyday life. In the passage, Hurston talks about the angels as forces that broke up the goodness in humans and I was wondering her reasons for this.
ReplyDeleteThis is Julia and I wasn’t able to have wifi access until today so here is my missing post for July 15th which I wrote awhile ago so these are some of the things I’ve observed more towards the beginning of the book.
ReplyDelete“Janie, if you think Ah aims to tole you off and make a dog outa you, youse wrong. Ah wants to make a wife outta you.”
(Chapter 4 Page 29)
Is Janie really ready to leave Logan? It seems like she has unrealistically high expectations for a husband but with Logan, since it was an arranged marriage I think that it gave her a much better reason to leave him. On the other hand I think that since she hasn’t even known Joe for that long so it isn’t the best idea to go along with him either but Janie sure seemed convinced that she should go with him. I wonder if Joe really know s how to treat a woman? Will he keep his word for not making her work all the time?
Hi this is omar.
ReplyDeleteWell I just started reading this book not to long ago and so far it has come off as relaxing and calm, with vivid narrative. I have always found 3rd person narrative to be sort of tranquil and smooth, and since this book starts off this way, I think I might enjoy it, although I am tired of all the Southern settings because our previous summer reading was Huckleberry Finn.
“She was lying across the bed asleep so Jannie tipped on out of the front door. Oh to be a pear tree— any tree in blossom! With kidding bees singing of the beginning of the world! She was sixteen. She had glossy leaves and bursting buds and she wanted to struggle with life but it seemed to elude her. Where were the singing bees for her?” (11) Now I can’t imagine for someone to read this quote and not get more than three images to pop in their head. Zora Neale Hurston provides her readers with an enjoyable narrative, eloquently describing atmosphere and character persona.
Hi, This is Levin.
ReplyDeleteOne thing that I found to be striking throughout the novel was the intense and vivid use of description, as well as the frequent use of imagery entailed in such description. This really has allowed me to enjoy this novel more than I would have given simply the level of detail required for a technical, analytical narration. On example of this is when it is said: “ The men noticed her firm buttocks like she had grape fruits in her hip pockets; the great rope of black hair swinging to her waist and unraveling in the wind like a plume; then her pugnacious breasts trying to bore holes in her shirt. They, the men, were saving with the mind what they lost with the eye. The women took the faded shirt and muddy overalls and laid them away for remembrance. It was a weapon against her strength and if it turned out of no significance, still it was a hope that she might fall to their level some day.” One example of this which uses less imagery, however uses quite alot of metaphor, as well as overall description, is the quote: “Ships at a distance have every man’s wish on board. For some they come in with the tide. For others they sail forever on the horizon, never out of sight, never landing until the Watcher turns his eyes away in resignation, his dreams mocked to death by Time. That is the life of men. Now, women forget all those things they don’t want to remember and remember everything they don’t want to forget. The dream is the truth. Then they act and do things accordingly” I liked both of these quotes for the reasons I listed at the beginning of the paragraph.
This is Carrie. Jody and Janie are different from everyone else in town. They are richer and know things that other people don't. The people in the town don't like this and think that "It was bad enough for white people, but when one of your own color could be so different it put you in a wonder. It was like seeing your sister turn into a 'gator. A familiar strangeness" (48). The people in the town have a hard time accepting or understanding Jody and Janie. This is because they have some things in common it would be different if they were white, because then all their behavior would come with the disclaimer that they are white and therefore different. It is because of the things they have in common that their differences "put you in a wonder", they appear to be the same and that is what throws people off, they expect people to either be entirely different or completely identical in experiences, assets and values. A world in black in white instead of grey. Jody and Janie are clearly in the grey section they share the color of their skin (and discrimination that comes with it) with the people in the town if little else, it is this similarity that makes theirs such a "familiar strangeness".
ReplyDeleteHi, I'm Genevieve, a Junior, and I'd like to continue on the idea of the pear tree, especially concerning Erica's point about how it comes to represent happiness for Janie. I definitely think that's true; I further think that Janie's state of mind/being is reflected in the descriptions of the pear tree. When the pear tree is in bloom, around page eleven, Janie is full of life and hope, maturing as a woman in the flushing height of her joyous innocence. When, on page 10, we are first introduced to the tree, we are met with images of fecundity and beauty:
ReplyDelete"It had called her to come and gaze on a mystery. From barren brown stems to glistening leaf-buds... to snowy virginity of bloom. It stirred her tremendously.... It was like a flute song forgotten in another existence and remembered again. What? How? Why? This singing she heard that had nothing to do with her ears. The rose of the world was breathing out smell. It followed her through all her waking moments and caressed her in her sleep. It connected itself with other vaguely felt matters that had struck her outside observation and buried themselves in her flesh. Now they emerged and quested about her consciousness" (10-11).
Janie feels a connection to the tree on a very deep level; she is beginning to sexually awaken, which is reflected in Hurston's use of words like "virginity," "caressed," and "barren;” the last two sentences of the quotation refer to impulses and feelings that are felt before they are comprehended or questioned.
The parallels between Janie and the tree are soon made more apparent: “Oh to be a pear tree – any tree in bloom! With kissing bees singing of the beginning of the world! She was sixteen. She had glossy leaves and bursting buds and she wanted to struggle with life but it seemed to elude her” (11). The later discussion of a "golden dust of pollen" that had "beglamoured" (11) Johnny Taylor, the boy she kisses later, continue with the theme of Janie’s emerging sexuality. The image is beautiful, but also it is symbolically significant (pollen is, obviously, part of plants’ reproductive system). The beauty of Janie’s description of the haze speaks to her state of being. She is fresh and full of joy and love.
Greetings and salutations to all. reading the book had sparked a question that I have let stew for a while: Janie doesn't seem to feel any grief or sadness when she jumps immediately from one relationship to the next... what could be the reason why?
ReplyDeleteIsaiah,
ReplyDeleteJanie's first marriage is arranged. She thinks at first that from marriage, love will spring. During the first part of her first marriage, she is almost happy, as Logan treats her well and cares for her, while asking relatively little in return. The turning point comes, however, when Logan begins piling more and more work on her, while he himself does less. At this point, she almost becomes a slave to him and loses all hope of ever loving him in the process.
Then Joe Starks comes bouncing down the road. He seems like a perfect young man. He has money, a kind tone, and makes Janie many promises. So, with the choice of either staying with the increasingly nasty Logan Killicks or eloping with a seemingly nice guy, Janie makes the obvious choice and "jumps immediately" into a new relationship.
The happy period in her marriage to Joe lasts much longer than that of her marriage to Logan, likely because in choosing to be with Joe, she made her own educated decision instead of being forced to by her grandmother. However, as with her previous marriage, cracks begin to show as Joe reveals himself to be little more than a sexist power-addict. By the time he dies, Janie knows she wants to get out from under Joe's shadow.
When she meets Teacake, he has no big-headed plans and doesn't try to sweep her off her feet. Instead he listens and talks to her and doesn't judge her on the basis of her past. And thusly, Janie "jumps" into her final, shortest, and best relationship.
To be blunt, she doesn't feel grief or sadness because her two first spouses treat her so badly that she has no reason to feel any sadness. Logan virtually turns her into a slave while Joe simply beats her and belittles her. Their marriage becomes so mutilated that Joe doesn't allow her near his death bed because he's so scared of her choosing to think for herself and "defy" his wishes to be a simple, quiet, housewife. So that's the best answer I can come up with.
In each of Janie’s relationships, everything seems to be very quick and rushed as she doesn’t allow enough time for herself to learn about what she is getting into which causes somewhat of a vicious cycle. However, each time that this happens, it is after coming out of a bad relationship. I sympathize for her, as all she wants is to be in a relationship in which she is truly in love and is treated well. Because she did not have much choice in her first marriage and was rushed into it, she soon found that she was unhappy so when she met Joe Sparks, he immediately enthralled her. Since she was so young and probably confused, she rushed into that marriage as well. Although to me it seems a little silly to merely go off and marry someone that she had just met, I also feel pity for her position at such a young age.
ReplyDeleteAfterward, she soon realizes that she is discontented with this marriage as well and when Joe dies, she cannot help but to feel comforted by Tea Cake's kindness. Although many of the citizens speak disapprovingly of her new and hurried relationship with (younger) Tea Cake, she disregards them as Tea Cake achieves at making Jainie feel appreciated (and probably younger as well) after feeling so lonely and degraded in her marriage with Joe. Jainie doesn’t consider the similarity of the fast pace of her new relationship and her prior relationships, as her new love with Tea Cake, “made her so glad she was scared of herself” (p117).
I feel that Jainie has struggled a lot in her marriages (which have dictated her life and the ways she expresses herself) and starting at a young age, too. As she doesn’t have many people to express herself to, she instantly finds comfort in each new guy she “thinks” she falls in love with, however, it seems to me to be somewhat of a vicious cycle in which she consequently gets hurt.
“A feeling of sudden newness and change came over her. Janie hurried out of the front gate and turned south. Even if Joe was not there waiting for her, the change was bound to do her good. The morning road air was like a new dress. That made her feel the apron tied around her waist. She untied it and flung it on a low bush beside the road and walked on…. From now on until death she was going to have flower dust and springtime sprinkled over everything…. Her old thoughts were going to come in handy now, but new words would have to me made and said to fit them.” (32)
ReplyDeleteI liked this passage because Janie is really becoming independent. She relied on her grandmother for most of her life, and then on Mr. Killicks. Although she is still reliant on Joe Starks here, she acknowledges that even if he doesn’t meet her and take her away like he said he would, she will leave anyway. Janie realizes that her life is going to change if she leaves, and she decides to change it for the better. When she talks about flower dust and springtime covering everything in her new life, the image is fresh and new, kind of like Janie herself. She is still very young and has her whole life ahead of her, something she seems to realize in this passage. She isn’t happy with Mr. Killicks, and so she leaves him despite being a young woman in a time when young women generally followed instead of leading. Janie’s ability to take control of her own life seems to come to light in this passage, which is why it stood out to me.
“It was bad enough for white people, but when one of your own color could be so different it put you on a wonder. It was like seeing your sister turn into a ‘gator. A familiar strangeness. You keep seeing your sister in the ‘gator and the ‘gator in your sister, and you’d rather not” (48).
ReplyDeleteLike other people have said, Janie and Joe don’t have a very peaceful, healthy relationship. He seems to like to place them above the other townspeople, something that Janie doesn’t like and doesn’t want. This quote emphasizes the mistake Joe has made in fighting for superiority; as the mayor of an all-black town, his focus presumably would be on equality and a place in which to escape from prejudice, and instead Joe has made it clear that he feels above the other townspeople. At that time in America, black people faced huge amounts of prejudice from white people, and suddenly Joe appeared and added his own prejudice to this. Joe alienates himself and Janie from the rest of the town with his assumptions of superiority. As the quote says, Joe is the same as the townspeople and yet he makes himself different, something which is disconcerting to everyone. This uptight, managed lifestyle probably contributes to Janie’s ultimate decision to leave the town after Joe’s death with Tea Cake. The life of freedom and equality with which Tea Cake provides her is so different from her old, suppressive life with Joe that Janie is all the more entranced.
Isaiah,
ReplyDeleteI see what you mean about Janie not grieving between relationships. I think the reason for this is that she was never satisfied in her relationships with Logan or Joe, and she let herself spend a lot of time thinking about the reasons why. So when the relationships ended, she really had all her priorities in order: she knew that the relationships weren't working and why, and she was ready for freedom and the possibility of a new life.
Sorry to jump all the way back to the topic of Genevieve's comment, but I have noticed this as well; I think the use of nature represents Janie's generally positive emotions: at the beginning, adolescent longing and wonder. Later, she uses it to escape depression during her marriage with Jody ("...She sat and watched the shadow of herself going about tending store..[While] all the time she herself sat under a shady tree with the wind blowing through her hair and clothes (77). Then, when she falls in love with Tea Cake, she once again compares love to nature, referencing bees and pollination, and revisits the image of the pear tree: "He could be a bee to a blossom-a pear tree blossom in the spring" (106). This is definitely a big theme to look out for.
ReplyDeleteLehna Cohen
ReplyDelete9th Grade
Hello everyone. Today I am going to discuss the connections between Their Eyes Were Watching God and a very popular movie and even more so book titled The Help. Both are set in a time period where African Americans were a lower class in society. Both deal with the struggle of women's rights. But above all what makes these stories similar is the strength of the heroins. Janie, Ms. Skeeter, and Aibileen are all courageous women with unique qualities. For Janie it is beauty. Ms. Skeeter, her intelligence. Aibileen, her perseverance. I am quite fond of the idea that women are capable of anything. Which brings me to my conclusion. The one thing I have enjoyed so much in Their Eyes Were Watching God is that Janie always put her self before her significant other. It is a redeeming quality that makes her such a strong woman. For that, I look up to her in a sense.
Hannah Miller here:
ReplyDeleteThere are numerous themes in this book, including ones that I will call: “Searching for the Bee”, “Marriage”, and “The Woman's Place”. The one that I will discuss in this blog is the theme called “Their Eyes Were Watching God”.
What bothers me about religion is the belief that someone or something else is controlling my life. I see how it can be comforting and helpful, but I don't like the feeling of helplessness. It bothers me when people get into trouble, instead of doing something when they can, they chose to pray. When they could be solving the problem, they basically don't do anything.
But sometimes, there is literally nothing to be done. When you are waiting for something to happen, and you can't do anything to stop it or hasten its arrival. This happens periodically throughout the book: when Janie is waiting for adulthood, then love, then death, then the hurricane. “They huddled closer and stared at the door. They just didn't use another part of their bodies, and they didn't look at anything but the door. The time was past for asking the white folks what to look for through that door. Six eyes were questioning God. […] They seemed to be staring at the dark, but their eyes were watching God.” (page 159 and 160) The time has past for Janie, Tea Cake and Motor Boat to leave or change anything. All they can do is wait.
Another theme that ties into this one is that Janie has so little control over her life. The fact that she grew up with her grandmother because her mother was not present was not her doing. Her being thrust out into the world by her grandmother and marrying Logan was not her choice. Her finding love twice after that was not her doing either. Sure, she made little choices here and there that affected her life, but for the most part, her life was guided by others and, perhaps, a higher power. Her life was created by others, and was added onto and diminished by others along the way. A lot of the time, all we can do is wait for a change. Sometimes, all we can do is watch God.
Throughout the novel I noticed many different symbols and deeper meanings. For example in the beginning of the book starts out with Janie walking on the street. In her long hair and overalls. The towns people talking about what she’s wearing and talking about her hair too. The first symbol I noticed was her hair. It stood out to me as Janie being herself, self confidence, and identity. It didn’t seem like she cared what people thought about her long hair, and her overalls.
ReplyDelete(Page 2)
Janie’s hair: A symbol of strength and self identity.
Another symbol I noticed was the pear tree. There was a pear tree that Janie sat under. Hurston described the growth of the pear tree over time, and the way nature worked about the tree. This symbol represents growth. And the way that Janie as a character developed, and the way she became stronger in relationships and life over time.
(Page 11)
The pear tree: A symbol of growth.
Another symbol I found in the book was the porch. As the novel continued the porch stayed as a symbol. It to me was a symbol of community and family. All the people from the town gathered on the porch at night sang songs, and basically just spent time with each other. It was a safe place for the town, and a place where everyone felt welcome.
(Page 66)
The porch: A symbol of community.
Zora Neale Hurston uses vivid descriptions of scenes and characters to convey a realistic and rich visualization of the events in the book. One very interesting thing is that the way she describes things in the book changes depending on the mood of the scene. An example of this is when Joe Starks is dying, she describes him in a very bleak and sad way. But when we first meet Joe. He is described in a more upbeat way. The thing that I thought she described the best was Janie’s hair. It always seems so realistic, like you could reach out and touch it. Another thing that she described well was the town store. She noted every detail that you could think of, such as when it opened, all of the cans were laid out on the floor. Also, she described the material that the counter was made out of and what was under the counter in detail. This made the book much more engaging to read.
ReplyDeleteHello there, it’s Kira. I wanted to talk about a quote that at first, to me, didn’t appear as important. On page 12, Janie kisses Johnny Taylor, and Nanny sees it. Nanny becomes upset, understandably, and talks to Janie about love, and Janie’s mother, and misfortune in the family. When Nanny first sees the kiss, she screams for Janie, and Hurston writes “That was the end of her childhood.” Because of the far-fetched nature of this quote, it seems unlikely that Janie was really losing her childhood with a single kiss. However, once Nanny starts expressing her wishes for Janie to marry, it’s clear that Janie’s childhood is truly gone.
ReplyDeleteJanie wants to make Nanny happy, but asking Janie to marry someone she doesn’t love is a lot to ask. On page 20 Nanny says “Have some sympathy fuh me. Put me down easy, Janie, Ah’m a cracked plate.” When I first read this, it didn’t strike me as important, however, on further inspection, I believe that it was very unfair of Nanny to say that, and if she hadn’t, Janie wouldn’t have married Logan. I think it’s unfair because it seems almost like Nanny is blaming Janie, and is the reason for why she is a “cracked plate”, along with the fact that Nanny had just told Janie about her mother and the misfortune in her family. While Janie is a free thinker, she also keeps her family in mind. Even though Nanny just wanted to give Janie a good life, I believe it was unfair of her to force such a request on Janie.
Janie has four different relationships with men in the book. However the only one I would approve of is her relationship with Tea Cake. Tea Cake was fifteen years younger then her in age, which many people in the town, found inappropriate. I believe that love has no age and if two people find love together and they are happy together they should not be bothered. After her marriage with Joe Starks Tea Cake was like a breath of fresh air for Janie. She had been held back for so long and now she was finally letting herself do what she intended to do instead of having a man tell her what she should or shouldn’t be doing.
ReplyDelete“Jody classed me off. Ah didn’t. Naw, Pheoby, Tea Cake ain’t draggin’ me off nowhere Ah don’t want tuh go. Ah always did want tuh git round a whole heap, but Jody wouldn’y ‘low me tuh. When Ah wasn’t in de store he wanted me tuh jes sit wid folded hands and sit dere. And ah’d sit dere wid de walls creepin’ up on me and squeezing’ all de life outa me. Pheoby, dese educated women got uh heap of things to sit down and consider. Somebody done tole em’ what to set down down for. Nobody ain’t told poor me, so sittin’ still worries me. Ah wants to utilize mahself all over.” (pg 112)
Janie means that her life was taken away from her and she doesn’t want to sit back anymore. She wants to make up for the life she lost with Joe and she wants to do that with Tea Cake. But Tea Cake is a free spirit and even though Janie loves it at first the first time she doubts Tea Cake is right after they get married. Janie has two-hundred dollars with her just in case and Tea cake takes it while she’s sleeping and goes on a day alone feeling like a rich man, then comes back to Janie with twelve dollars in his pocket. He gambles it all back the next day but Janie perhaps doesn’t feel as trusting. Though I feel they loved each other, they weren’t meant for each other either. However it was her best relationship with a man. She was happy, and they didn’t rush as fast as her other ones. She took the time to know him before they decided to get married. Janie was trying to find love but made decisions very quickly which may have been her downfall. In the end when Tea Cake goes mad and is killed by her, shed does it because she loves him but knows her Tea Cake will never be the same again. It is a mercy killing, which hurts even more then just a killing. At the end Janie is single but not alone. She has grown much wiser and accepter
Hi, it's Sarah. I agree with what Kira said about Nanny being unfair. It seems to me that Nanny takes her beliefs and forces them onto Janie. On page 89 it says Nanny "had taken the biggest thing God ever made, the horizon-for no matter how far a person can go the horizon is still way beyond you-and pinched it into such a little bit of a thing that she could tie it about her granddaughter's neck tight enough to choke her." Nanny stifles Janie until Janie ultimately realizes that she really, truly hates Nanny. But, if you asked Nanny, I'm sure she would say she was trying to do what was best for Janie. Sometimes people try their hardest to keep their loved ones safe, but end up trying too hard and destroying their relationship.
ReplyDeleteHello again all. I have noticed that throughout Janie's relationships, we assume that she has relations of a sexual nature, but the only times it is even slightly mentioned in her two previous marriages is once with Logan, in where she is talking to Nanny, and Nanny asks if she's pregnant, and she replies "'No'm, Ah don't think so anyhow'"(22). This is the only indication that she has had any type of relation of that sort. But Janie goes of to even further question that this might even be true, saying "'Ah'm all right dat way. Ah know 'tain't nothin' dere'"(22). This prompts me to thinking that they might not have done anything at all, if she seems to be sure about it. This is the only time anything about this subject matter comes up during her short time with Logan. The next time it comes up, is nearly 50 pages and about seven years later that it is mentioned that "The spirit of the marriage left the bedroom...The bed was no longer a daisy-field for her and Joe to play in"(71). This shows that they did use to have sexual relations, but that they disintegrated as their marriage went along. While not saying that it stopped for good, it does imply they stopped doing it regularly. But the first time we actually know that Janie is having a sexual relationship is another 65 pages or so later, with the man she was meant to be with, Tea Cake. It happens after they fight about a girl that was flirting with Tea Cake. Janie gets mad and jealous and they fight until it turns into something more, "They wrestled on until they were doped with their own fumes and emanations; till their clothes had been torn away; till he hurled her to the floor and held her there melting her resistance with the heat of his body, doing things with their bodies to express the inexpressible; kissed her until she arched her body to meet him and they fell asleep in sweet exhaustion"(137-138). The fact that the author decided to even put this section in shows how their relationship was closer and better that her previous relationships.
ReplyDeleteWhen I was reading chapter 18, I found that the way the African-Americans perceived the Native Americans in the book was somewhat mirroring the way the African-Americans were viewed by European Americans. From references in the book to prejudiced laws, I know that at that time in history European Americans were considered dominant over African Americans. Of course the “reasons” for this were irrational and lame, however in the book I find that the racially segregated hierarchy continues past the African-Americans to the Native Americans. This is illustrated in Their Eyes Were Watching God when the Native Americans started to evacuate the Everglades. When Janie asked why they were leaving, they said: “Going to high ground. Saw-grass bloom. Hurricane coming” (Page 154). Because the weather was beautiful citizens in the primarily African-American town didn’t follow, in fact Tea Cake commented: “Dey don’t always know. Indians don’t know much uh nothin’, tuh tell de truth. Else dey’d own dis country still. De white folks ain’t going nowhere. Dey oughta know if it’s dangerous. You better stay heah, man. Big jumpin’ dance tonight right heah, when it fair off” (Page 156). Here, Tea Cake is pushing the Native Americans lower on the pecking order because he believes that the European Americans will know if there is a hurricane coming. Tea Cake’s claim against the Native Americans turns out to be irrational and misplaced because a few days later a huge hurricane hits and nearly kills Janie and sets off a chain of reactions that ends up killing him! By valuing the European American perspective over what turned out to be the more credible experience of the Native Americans, Tea Cake is contributing to an established hierarchy of prejudice, placing Native Americans on the lowest rung on the ladder.
ReplyDeleteHi everyone, One the things I found interesting was the relationship between Joe and Janie. It started out well, like all of us read, Joe seemed like a very nice gentlemen that would suit Janie. As the story keeps on going Joe starts to lose interest in Janie and does give her attention when she needs it. In addition, he starts to treat her like a servant. It's kind of messed up because he doesn't see his her as his top priority in comparison to any task that he has to do. Let alone that he takes away her freedom to enjoy the community. He tries to hid her from the all folks because he's "jealous" that they will take her away from him. This not only causes tension in their relationship but it pushes Janie to rethink about her marriage and whether she wants to keep going or not.
ReplyDelete“There is a basin in the mind where words float around on thought and thought on sound and sight. Then there is a depth of thought untouched by words and deeper still a gulf of formless untouched by thought. Nanny entered this infinity of conscious pain again on her old knees (24)”.
ReplyDeleteThis quote stood out to me because of its ability to grab a reader’s attention and force them to read it once more slowly. My first time reading this passage it threw my reading pace off and I had to read small segment by segment to let the imagery set in. Although I am not completely definite of the meaning I still want to make an attempt to decipher it and how it fits to Nanny forgetting why she was on her knees. From my understanding the first sentence is describing how the body takes in input from the five senses and the brain outputs thoughts to choose from. Just as if you were to see a flower, you sense it through smell and sight, your brain begins to fill up. The basin in your brain contains forming letters, words, and then sentences for one to either express or contemplate deeper on. The next sentence states that on a deeper level of thought that’s never been felt thought before (so confusing). This could mean that this thinking process is so complex you’re not even aware until it’s complete. As if it’s all don’t in your sub-conscious and is meant to be hidden. Nanny becomes aware that she is on her knees and feels pain in them, in the last sentence. In her case the process was backwards; she was first lost in thought itself, then realized where she was, and later felt the sensation of pain.
On the other hand the passage could be meant to confuse readers only to let them reflect on how thoughts are formed and how a deeper thought can form in your sub-conscious without you realizing it.
That’s only what I think..Any other thoughts?
Hey everyone, im here to talk about the realtionship Janie had with Jody Starks to the relationship she has with Tea Cake. Janie tells Pheobe, "Cause Tea Cake ain't no Jody Starks, and if he tried tuh be, it would be uh complete flomuck. But the mintue Ah marries 'im everybody is gointuh be makin' comparisons...Ah done lived Grandma's way, now Ah means tuh live mine" (114). Here shows that Jody and Tea Cake has some differences. When Janie was married to Jody she wasn't as happy as she was when she is married to Tea Cake. She would work in the store and in the post office and she would hate it. They would get into many arguements which sometimes led to physical harm: " Joe Sarks didn't the words for all this, but he knew the feeling. So he struck Janie with all his might and drove her from the store" (80). For as far as I kow at the moment, Tea Cake never harms her physical, but mentally by having her worry about him most of the time, but he does so for her good.
ReplyDeleteAlright. So what is with the end? So Janie kills Tea Cake out of self-protection, and since she loves him, it's all OK? Then she puts on a funeral for her "late husband", then goes back to Eastonville, and "Now, dat's how everything wuz, Pheoby, jus' lak Ah told yuh. So Ah'm back home agin and Ah'm satisfied tuh be heah. (page 191)" And there's all the poetry stuff at the end. Really unsatisfying.
ReplyDeleteOkay, so I understand that in the last two pages, there is all this poetic wrapping-up-idge (definitely not a word, but go along with me here) of the story. Some of it is pretty obscure, so I am just going to analyze it in my way.
"She pulled in her horizon like a great fish-net. Pulled it from around the waist of the world and draped it over her shoulder. So much of life in its meshes! She called in her soul to come and see. (page 193)" The way that I read this is that the horizon is like her life, what has past and what will come. It is a poetic way of saying she looks back at her life as an old friend (some people can't do that). Also earlier in the book, she said that her grandmother had choked her with the horizon, just as "she had been getting ready for her great journey to the horizons in search of people. (page 89)" But now, instead of dreading the choke of the horizon, Janie is welcoming it to her and examining it with fondness. It goes to show how so very much she matured and became wiser.
OK, now that I have analyzed it, it makes so much more sense and makes the ending a little more satisfactory.
Hi, it’s Sarah. I want to talk about the hurricane. When the Seminoles say “Going to high ground. Saw-grass bloom. Hurricane coming” (154), this is a clear warning that something is going to happen. They have ways of knowing about the weather in advance, and, in my opinion, should be believed. But the workers think that there can’t be a hurricane, simply because they’re making “seven and eight dollars a day” (155). Then, when the animals start to go east, (generally a sign that something bad is coming), still no one leaves. I think that if the people on the muck hadn’t ignored the signs, they could have left in time and been safe.
ReplyDeleteThis might belong in the language section, but I'd like to point out some the metaphors in the book. I have found that there are two different kinds of metaphors, ones that are just funny and ones that are meant to be intriguing. A funny one, for example, would be when Janie and Joe first meet and Joe says, "You behind a plow! You ain't got no mo' business wid uh plow than uh hog is got wid uh holiday!" It's just a silly metaphor to make the conversation fun. Other metaphors however are meant to have more meaning. Here's one that I found particularly captivating:
ReplyDelete"She stood there until something fell off the shelf inside her. Then she went inside there to see what it was. It was her image of Jody tumbled down and shattered. But looking at it she saw that it never was the flesh and blood figure of her dreams. Just something she had grabbed up to drape her dreams over. In a way she turned her back upon the image where it lay and looked further. She had no more blossomy openings dusting pollen over her man, neither any glistening young fruit where the pedals used to be."
The metaphor uses imagery to show that not only is the old Jody gone, but he never represented love in the first place. There are several metaphors like this in the book, including one about love being a flower and a bee (which is referenced at the end of the above quote). In my opinion, the imagery of the metaphors in this book makes emotions and thoughts easier to understand by creating a picture in your mind.
Janie’s hair is a theme that is mentioned in intervals throughout Their Eyes Were Watching God, often in reference to Janie’s independence or lack there of. Jody’s insistence on Janie wearing the head-rag, because “Her hair was NOT going to show in the store” (55), is representative of his larger attempts to stifle Janie’s freedom. Jody is power hungry and wants control over everything, including his wife. This is why their marriage is doomed from the start, because he tries to stifle her voice, her personality and her hair. Tea Cake by contrast is complimentary to her hair and therefore to her self-sufficiency. Rather than attempting to hide her hair, Tea Cake tries “combing her hair” (103) which shows symbolically his ability to respect and work together with her independent nature in their relationship. In their marriage, just as when she is a girl or single, her hair remains down as a symbol of her free choice.
ReplyDeleteI thought it was a very interesting contrast between the way Hurston describes the mule's and Joe Starks' differing attitudes facing Death. After Lum finds the dead mule, Hurston describes the mule; “ . . . died like any other beast. He had seen Death coming and stood his ground and fought it like a natural man. He had fought it to the last breath . Naturally he didn't have time to straighten himself out. Death had taken it like it found him”(59). It seems that if the mule was human, he would have acted very mature about dying. He did not act afraid, although he did not want to die yet by “fighting like a natural man.” Adversely, Joe Starks was in complete denial that he was going to die. Hurston describes, “He wasn't going to die at all. That was what he thought”(84). Furthermore, he remains terrified. While Janie is talking with him about dying, he bursts: “Janie! Janie! don't tell me Ah got tuh die, Ah ain't used tuh thinkin' 'bout it”(86).
ReplyDelete--Aleia
I noticed that toward the end of the book there was great juxtaposition between good and bad forces of nature. The God talked about in the novel starts to seem not so benevolent as the storm hits and Tea Cake becomes ill. When Hurston talks about the storm and Tea Cake's illness she describes them with demon characteristics. Talking about the storm, Hurston says "It woke up old Okechobee and the monster began to roll in his bed. Began to roll and complain like a peevish world on a grumble." (158). Hurston describes Tea Cake's illness in the same way; relentless, cruel intentioned and incontrollable. "But the demon was there before him, strangling him quickly." (175) "Tea Cake was gone. Something else was looking out of his face". (181) "Tea Cake's suffering brain was urging him to kill" (183) "Tea Cake couldn't come back to himself until he had got rid of that mad dog that was in him and he couldn't get rid of the dog and live."
ReplyDeleteAlthough the God in the novel is typically talked about in a monotheistic way, from one passage it seemed that Janie believed in several gods or accepted that there were different gods for everyone. "All gods dispense suffering without reason. Otherwise they would not be worshipped… Half gods are worshipped in wine and flowers. Real gods require blood." (145) Hurston goes on to talking about Mrs. Turner's God, which is composed of Caucasian characteristics.
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ReplyDelete5. I was wondering if anybody else noticed that Janie and Tea Cake's relationship could be considered as an example of Freud's psychoanalytic theory. Usually, I'm all for couples that are a few years apart in age, but the age difference here is pretty close to a potential mother-y-ish . . . figure; "Must be around twenty five and here she was around forty"(100).
ReplyDeleteHe also refers to her as "Mama"(128), which can be an endearing name but. . . I don't know.
"Janie hovered him in her arms like a child"(180).
Since we don't know his childhood, we have no idea what kind of relationship (or lack thereof) he had with his parents.
Oh, Freud. . .
Does anybody else have an idea or opinion on this?
--Aleia
I agree with Aleia that it seems a little bit strange that there is such a big age difference between Janie and Tea Cake.
ReplyDeletePerhaps they think that if they really love each other, age shouldn't be keeping them apart...
Personally I'm not sure.. I think Janie is caught up in his childish and exciting personality and she feels younger when she's with him. I don't think she realizes that he may be a little too young for her.
But I'm not sure what Tea Cake thinks about the age difference. He seems to just ignore it.
As far as I could tell, Tea Cake doesn't entirely ignore the age difference between them, he just eventually no longer sees it as a defining part of their relationship. At one point early on in their romance he mentions something along the lines of how he tried to stay away because of the age difference, but couldn't convince himself that it mattered. Later on, he and Janie also talk about how it seemed like she had used all of her old age with Joe and had saved her youth to spend with him (Tea Cake that is). I seriously doubt that the author was intentionally referencing Freudian psychology.
ReplyDeleteWhile I realize that a lot of people have been using this thread to talk about their favorite parts of the book, I am going to break the tradition and mention something I find particularly aggravating. I am sure a lot of people reading this book and contributing to the blog love or at least appreciate the very colorful language used in by Hurston in the novel, and, for the most part, I do not have any problems with it. However, one of the most infuriating parts of the language used by the author is her overly outlandish metaphors, such as the metaphorization of the porch-top storytelling: “When the people sat around on the porch and passed around the pictures of their thoughts … it was nice. The fact that the thought pictures were always crayon enlargements of life made it nicer to listen to” (51). While the metaphors are very creative and the imagery used is very effective in communicating the ideas to the reader, the overt cartoonishness of the metaphors falls under what I consider overly flowery writing and irks me considerably.
ReplyDeleteI will have to respectfully disagree with what Brandt has said about the author's writing.lol. Actually I like the metaphors because they allow you to visualize the scene in a way that you can relate to. For example, it's most likely that everyone who goes to Maybeck has probably seen an episode or two on family guy. We seem to enjoy it because it's funny and hilarious,and we realize that we like cartoons even tho we are grown ups, i guess. My point being is that she allows us to understand the situations by adding some flavors which makes us, the readers enjoy it more.
ReplyDelete#family guy = #Swagg
I can certainly understand Brandt’s dislike about Hurston’s use of flowery language, but I believe it much improves the book and adds depth to certain scenes. The English language is rather limiting when it comes to describing certain things, so Hurston makes use of her “flowery language” to describe and detail things that standard English would ruin. I don’t think that it’s outlandish or outrageous and funny. It’s simply the closest to the actual experience that Hurston can get using written English. That’s what makes metaphors so great. They allow an author to explain something that would never be possible to describe using straight English. You have to be flowery sometimes. For example, simply saying “I liked sitting on the porch because people talked about their thoughts in simple but descriptive manners” isn’t quite the same as the actual crayon quote. The crayon quote represents the actual feeling of the scene, but I think that it’s the best possible way of presenting the scene to the reader, much better than literal English would be.
ReplyDeleteThere were multiple points throughout the novel ware a point was made that seemed as if it would have a greater impact in the future of the novel that didn’t end op following through. I find it interesting that Hurston throws in conflicts and points that raise a feeling of foreshadowing that do not end up going anywhere. As I look thought the novel I spot many points at which I marked foreshadowing, and or “look out!” as though the passage would come back to haunt the characters later on in the novel. A prominent example of a passage I mistook, as foreshadowing was when it was revealed that Tea Cake was a gambler. “Honey, since you loose me and gimme privilege tuh tell yuh all about mahself, Ah’ll tell yuh. You done married one uh de best gamblers God ever made. (125)” My response in the margins was “Tea cake a gambler!? Bad news! (foreshadowing)”, but in reality nothing ever came through and all the fuss over Tea Cakes gambling was not at all important. I enjoyed following these false leads and seeing which ones came through or not. Unluckily for Tea Cake the dog biting did come back to kill him, but many others laid untouched after their mention.
ReplyDeleteJust to respond briefly to Aleia's post on August 17th:
ReplyDeleteIt is true that Janie and Tea Cake are far apart in age, but I'd just like to point out Janie is not close to the ages of her other husbands either; Joe is in his thirties, while she is still in her late teens, and Logan is in his sixties, I believe, while she is in her mid teens. The difference in age between Janie and Logan is even more substantial than the one between her and Tea Cake, but because it was culturally accepted at the time that the male in the relationship would be older, by any degree, than the female, there is little attention drawn to the relationships in the novel that follow this expectation.
Hey all, it's Alicia again, sorry. I checked, it never specifies Logan's age, I had sixty in my head because that's the number of acres he owns. However, it does make a point of his being considerably old, describing him as "some ole skullhead in de grave yard" (13). Hurston also makes a point of calling Joe, at 30 years old, young in comparison to Logan. In any case, he is much older than Janie.
ReplyDeleteThere seems to be relatively little racism within “Their Eyes Were Watching God”. The main reason for this is the sheer lack of white characters throughout the novel. The first half of the novel took place in a primarily black town that was run and inhabited by mostly blacks and the second half of the book took place in a are highly populated by poor black and white people, and in such a situation they tends to be less discrimination. The one major appearance of racism was the sad situation of Mrs. Turner, a black lady who prided herself in her white physical characteristics and idolized the idea of appearing white. Mrs. Turner’s view on black people is; “If it wazn’t for so many black folks it wouldn’t be no race problem. De white folks would take us wid dem. De black ones is holdin’ us back. (141)” Mrs. Turner was the first notable example of racism with in the novel. The only other appearance of racism is when Tea Cake is drafted into the grave digging army to help clear the muck of the dead from the flood. “They makin’ coffins fuh all de white folks.”… “Whut tuh do’ bout de colored folks? Got boxes for dem too?” “Nope. (171)” This was the only other notable passage that clearly identified racism as a subject. Otherwise “Their Eyes Were Watching God”, contained very littler racism.
ReplyDeleteI have to agree with Alicia's point, though it doesn't specify Logan's age, calling Joe "young" even though he's 30 years old does show that his age is significantly higher. as well as the quote said on page 13, it made me think he would be the 60+ years range but it's unknown still.
ReplyDeleteInterestingly enough one more characteristics of Tea Cake that sets him apart from Janie’s other husbands is his age. He is significantly younger that Janie’s other two husbands, who have been worse to her and more demanding. Tea Cake’s compassion and young attitude towards life was the defining characteristics of his love towards Janie. It was pointed out that his time spent with Janie felt like the life that she should have lived first, rather than after her other two marriages, for it was so childish and carefree. Part of this being true, was the fact that Tea Cake was physically much younger than Janie, and her other Husbands.
ReplyDeleteOne thing that Chris mentioned in his response was that Janie's previous husbands were more demanding than Tea Cake. I agree that Jody was far more demanding than Tea Cake, but I think Logan wanted her to do more "womanly" things like cooking and cleaning and sitting on the porch all day long. Now, after a not so long amount of time reading one can figure out that Janie isn't to enthused about "woman chores." In the novel, when Logan asks her to just sit on the porch, that is when Janie decides to leave for Jody. So in a way they are both demanding, but when Logan wants her to relax, Jody wants her to fetch.
ReplyDeleteHello, it’s kira. I know this was brought up a while ago, but in response so Isaiah’s question, I’d have to say that she moved on from Joe to Tea Cake so quickly because, frankly, there wasn’t much to grieve over. Janie loved Joe for a while, yes, but toward the end of their relationship I think it’s safe to say that Janie felt little to nothing, romantic or otherwise, toward Joe. So when Tea Cake came along and treated her right, she could move on to true love and happiness without much hesitation.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Ellen’s comment on Janie’s hair being a symbol of freedom, I just wanted to agree, and add on that the way Janie presents herself really shows her free thinking nature. She keeps her hair long and out, as well as dressing in overalls at different points in the book. Along with the fact that she wears bright colors quite soon after the death of Joe, even though it was for Tea Cake.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Abraham and Theo about the author's use of metaphors and "flowery language." The metaphors and language make the scenes in the book more interesting and enjoyable because it helps us imagine the scene and see it in our minds, kinda like how Abraham was talking about family guy. I doubt it'd be funny at all if we couldn't see the scenes.
ReplyDeleteI agree, I think the book would be much less unique and for me it would be harder to imagine each scene, although it might be more straight forward and to the point if there were less metaphors. But the metaphors personally help me a lot to understand what the author is trying to portray in each chapter. I believe that the use of those metaphors gives the book an extra element that makes it more interesting.
ReplyDeleteBrandt, I see what you mean about the language being cartoony and not quite “flowery”, and while it is strange to be mixed in with the seriousness of the book, I’d say it works. Janie is a playful character, and I think Hurston wanted to get that across in a way that wasn’t just the opinions of others, and her own descriptions. I think Hurston just wanted to show that Janie’s “playfulness” is a large part of her personality, even affecting the way she things and speaks.
ReplyDeleteHey, it's Ben. I love the idea of this having a favorite quote discussion, so I'm posting regarding one my favorite passages. The passage itself is the entirety of page 131-135 (ch14). It depicts the development of both the community in the Glades and the development of Janie's relationship with Tea Cake.
ReplyDeleteOne part in particular caught my attention as I was reading:
"All night now the jocks clanged and clamored. Pianos living three lifetimes in one. Blues made and used right on the spot. Dancing, fighting, singing, crying, laughing, winning and losing love every hour. Work all day for money, fight all night for love. The rich black earth clinging to bodies and biting the skin like ants." (p131)
I particularly like this part because it showcases a little bit of everyday life in the Glades. It conveys an atmosphere of fun, casual living and working. The writing in chapter fourteen also allows the reader to kind of immerse themselves in the situation and kind of understand what's going on. Another reason I like that passage is that without much dialogue it manages to make you feel like you're there and can easily imagine the conversations yourself.
In response to Julia's post:
ReplyDeleteI agree with your post about how the metaphors help with what the author is trying to portray. Every few chapters (or even less) I noticed different metaphors that the author put in. They made the parts in the book easier to understand. The way she wrote them also helped me to visualize the metaphor its self.
Annie again. Sorry i've been lagging on the posts. This is to make up for the august 1 post.
ReplyDeleteSo i want to touch on the subject of death because it seems to be such a prominent point in the novel.
"So Janie began to think of Death. Death, that strange being with the huge square toes who lived way in the West. The great one who lived in the straight house like a platform without sides to it, and without a roof. What need has Death for a cover, and what winds can blow against him? He stands in his high house that overlooks the world. Stands watchful and motionless all day with his sword drawn back, waiting for the messenger to bid him come. Been standing there before there was a where or a when or a then. She was liable to find a feather from his wings lying in her yard any day now. She was sad and afraid too. Poor Jody!" (84)
Janie’s conception of death is full of ironies. First, she imagines Death as an eternal being when he really introduces people to eternity. When she asks, "what winds can blow against him?" it foreshadows the deathly hurricane at the end of the novel that brings so much death among the inhabitants of the Everglades. Appropriately, though, Janie’s concept of death is a vacuum – a space "without sides and without a roof" – signaling the emptiness and eternity of death. Interestingly, she doesn’t imagine such a horrible and lonely death for Tea Cake later on.
This is to make up for the Aug 15 post:
ReplyDelete"She hated her grandmother and had hidden it from herself all these years under a cloak of pity. She had been getting ready for her great journey to the horizons in search of people; it was important to all the world that she should find them and they find her. But she had been whipped like a cur dog, and run off down a back road after things. It was all according to the way you see things. Some people could look at a mud-puddle and see an ocean with ships. But Nanny belonged to that other kind that loved to deal in scraps. Here Nanny had taken the biggest thing God ever made, the horizon – for not matter how far a person can go the horizon is still way beyond you – and pinched it in to such a little bit of a thing that she could tie it about her granddaughter’s neck tight enough to choke her. She hated the old woman who had twisted her so in the name of love." (89)
This quote illuminates the theme of freedom which Janie desperately tries to pursue throughout the novel. Nanny tried to confine Janie's sense of value to only material objects or "things" while Janie has always really loved "people." Nanny imposed her narrow sense of the world onto the more broadminded Janie. This concept is illustrated in Janie’s metaphor of the horizon; Nanny took the "biggest thing God ever made" and twisted it into a choking noose that would not let Janie breathe, much less live, in the way she wanted to.
-Annie
I just recently read the beginning of chapter 17 and I found Tea Cake’s way of showing his love very strange. In order to assure that everyone understands that Jainie is his wife and belongs to him, he hits her so that others see the bruises on her, giving him almost an ownership. This part strikes me because its not that he is mad at Jainie at all or even truly wants to hurt her but because he is worried of other men liking her. He then feels bad after hitting her as he, “petted and pampered her as if those two or three face slaps had nearly killed her” (p147). Everyone else is aware that he does not truly want to hurt her and only does it as a mean to protect her as the book states that the other women were envious of the way in which he treated her after abusing her. It seems a little twisted, however, it comes across to me that Tea Cake lightly hitting Jainie is a sign of love for her as he doesn’t want her to leave him.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Chris's August 26th post, I think that the reason there seems to be so little racism in the novel is that there is practically no interaction between blacks and whites apart from the scenes of the post-hurricane clean-up. The novel deals almost exclusively with black characters.
ReplyDeleteInteresting comment Brandt. I would agree that while we see little direct actions taken by racists against the characters in the novels, racism plays a large role. The society that the protagonist inhabits is one that has been molded by centuries of racism, and there are many direct references to this. I seem to recall a passage where Janie's second husband is described as being as well dressed as a white person. This was one of the many accounts of the differences in socio-economic situations between communities of different race. This novel is not so much a description of racist actions, but it deals a lot of with cultures shaped by racism.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Guthrie while I do agree that racism plays a small background role in the novel it seems like Hurston is trying to show that these societies are trying to escape oppression because of race but that they are creating a whole new system of oppression in the process. Hurston doesn't show direct racism because she wants to show that these people are now oppressed by gender and class.
ReplyDeleteSince this is my last post before school starts, I want to focus not on just a character or a scene but the whole book itself.
ReplyDeleteI’ve read the book twice since I got it and the first time I was so reluctant on having to do homework during such a busy summer I mentally forced myself to dislike the book. I complained that the language was too difficult and the story was dull. Upon my second time reading it, I was absorbed and taking avid notes in the book. It is story of a young woman trying to find true love, finding herself, and growing up to be a wiser woman. Now I’m sure many of us have heard that storyline before but with “Their Eyes were Watching God”,it made me feel for Janie and at that time it seems marriage wasn’t as big a decision as it is now. The first time I read this book I thought that Janie was reckless and spinning out of control. She runs away with a strange man named Joe Starks and marries him, after leaving her husband she was forced to marry, Logan, then seriously regrets it. When he dies of sickness she meets Tea Cake who is about fifteen years younger. Upon reading it again I began to understand Janie’s situation by reading the passages more slowly and clearly. Logan accuses of her of being spoiled rotten and is rude to her on numerous occasions. “Aw you know Ah’m gwine to chop de wood fuh yuh. Even if you is stingy as you can be wid me. Yo’ Grandma and me myself done spoilt’ yuh now, and Ah reckon Ah have tuh keep on wid it.” (pg 27, Logan Killicks) and I finally understood why Janie jumped into such a hurried marriage with Joe is because she was young and sick of her stupid husband. She needed adventure and Joe Starks had big dreams which came true, but only tore their relationship apart. He was sexist, possessive, and power hungry. She was with him about twenty years and in that time her childhood was taken away. When asked to make a speech upon arriving in a new town Joe interrupts to say, “Thank yuh fuh yo’ compliments, but mah wife don’t know nothin’ ‘bout no speech makin’. Ah never married her for nothin’ lak dat. She’s uh woman and her place is is de home.”(pg 43, Joe Starks). Janie feels uncomftorable and hurt during every comment but whenever she stands up for herself she loses. Joe becomes sick and dies but she soon after meets Tea Cake and he is young and more carefree. When I first read the book I thought the age difference was too strange. Now I believe love has no age and since she was happy with him I respected it. Tea Cake gave back the young days she missed and though he did make mistakes it was the carefree life that Janie had missed while married to Joe Starks. I loved Tea Cake and even though he wasn’t the most interesting character he was always so happy and I loved him for that. I didn’t trust him at first, running away with Janie’s money, being gone for long periods of time, but he did it all because of love for Janie. When Janie kills him for mercy from his terrible disease.
All in all it was a great read for my summer and the language is more familiar so I can understand it. It really broadened my appeal for more book and I’m glad it was chosen.
I agree with Christopher that there are only a few incidences of racism throughout the novel. Due to its setting, I thought when I first began reading the book that it would deal with a lot of racial issues however there really end up only being a few. The incident that really stands out the most to me is Mrs. Turner's racist character and comments however this is still a little surprising as its not a direct incident with white people in society. I think that maybe it would have added a lot of interesting events had the book dealt more with the racism of the time but then again its also nice to read of black people during the time living happily and not being totally suppressed by society.
ReplyDeleteI was also initially looking for more incidents of racism and racial issues. The issues and incidents that were portrayed in the book were mostly subtle, or in the background, or somehow removed from the way in which we normally think of those issues.
ReplyDeleteJanie spends the entire novel trying to find true love and when she finds it she realizes that she needs to put herself first and utilize her new found independence, and gun skills, to kill Tea Cake, the only one holding her back in life.
ReplyDelete“Did marriage end the cosmic loneliness of the unmated? Did marriage compel love like the sun the day?” (21) This is not only one of my favorite quotes of the beginning of the novel but I think some of the main themes of the novel are the contrast between love and independence. Janie, being pushed into her first marriage by her grandmother is seeking love. She is not satisfied with her first marriage though, so she leaves him. Then she meets Joe Starks he treats her better and really likes her but again she is not satisfied she still has a loveless marriage. It is not until she meets Tea Cake that she is satisfied, because he teaches her to be independent. She grows in the novel from an innocent girl contemplating what love is and if marriage will bring her love to a woman that is sure of herself and her actions.
It is not until the end of her first marriage where she leaves the childhood world where all her dreams come true and she enters real life. She is progressing towards womanhood. That is another question altogether: What is womanhood to Janie? In the beginning of the novel, her friends say womanhood is about appearance. “Even wid dem overhalls on, you shows yo’ womanhood” (4) Womanhood is the beauty or womanly necessities women have. But I think womanhood has to do with independence. You can reach womanhood when you can fully function on your own in society and not relay on a husband, which she ends up realizing. This is my justification for her shooting Tea Cake. She needs to reach her full womanhood, which is the true journey of the novel. Tea Cake served as a great catalyst in starting her curiosity towards fully becoming a woman but to finish the journey on her own she would have to kill the one she loves.
One quote that caught my attention occurs near the end of the book, when we see that Tea Cake and Janie have lived through the storm, which causes many casualties. The author describes the image of the town that Janie and Tea Cake escaped to with strong detail blended with a bleak tone that elaborately describes the situation. “Corpses were not just found in wrecked houses. They were under houses, tangled in shrubbery, floating in water, hanging in trees, drifting under wreckage” (170). The quote is one of my favorite quotes in the book because Hurston combines the features of nature that can be considered as peaceful with the horrific images of corpses. At the same time, we see the devastating effect that nature also controls. The narration describes the actions of the bodies with fluid, yet motionless movement, whether they are “floating” (170) or “drifting” (170) in the different settings of nature. The soothing aspect of nature does not overshadow the concept of death, but blends with it in order to create a powerful and evoking message to the reader.
ReplyDeleteHi, it's Ian. Going back to what Chris Larsen said, there's very little racism in the book, because the majority of the characters in the story are black. The only appearances of racism were shown in Mrs. Turner, who worshiped the Caucasian race as though it were a bloodthirsty god, and in the men who forced Tea Cake to bury bodies, who said that only the white people got coffins. However, I have found racism somewhere else too. Right before the hurricane strikes, Tea Cake talks to his friend Lias, who urges Tea Cake to go with him. Lias says, "De Indians gahn east, man. It's dangerous." Tea Cake replies, "Dey don't always know. Indians don't know much uh nothin', tuh tell de truth. Else dey'd own dis country still. De white folks ain't gone nowhere. Dey oughta know if it's dangerous." Tea Cake decides not to go because he thinks the Native Americans are dumb and the white people haven't left. What's strange is that one would think that the blatant oppression by white people would cause black people to be more respectful towards other "racial minorities" such as Native Americans, yet it only makes them want to seek out other people to diminish so that THEY can hold power over something. Tea Cake thinks that white people is above him (the white people don't leave, so he doesn't either), so to compensate, he decides that Native Americans are below him.
ReplyDeleteI wanted to talk a bit about why the book was titled Their Eyes Were Watching God. Before I started reading it, I had assumed that the book would be entirely centered on God and his effect on human life, because that was what the title seemed to imply, so I was surprised to find so much in it about human empowerment. Rather than the plot focusing on religion, as I expected, much of the story seemed designed to show the power that we as humans have over our own life. That is not to say that God does not play a reasonably significant role- every time a major problem arises he is remembered again and begged for help- but God is not really part of the people’s everyday life. Janie’s last spoken phrase sums up the general vibe of the book to a certain extent. She says, “Two thing everybody’s got tuh do fuh theyselves. They got tuh go tuh God, and they got to find out about livin’ fuh theyselves” (192). This was the surprisingly mixed feeling I got from the whole of the book, that while God had a hand in what was happening, ultimately it was up to the people to decide for themselves, for better or for worse.
ReplyDeleteThis quote highlights the ongoing theme of innocence.
ReplyDelete"Here was peace. She pulled in her horizon like a great fish-net. Pulled it from around the waist of the world and draped it over her shoulder. So much of life in its meshes! She called in her soul to come and see."(193)
In the last paragraph of the novel, both Janie’s innocence and maturity are represented in the image of the horizon. As an innocent child, Janie always chased her horizons. Here at the end, she has both worshipped her horizons from afar and experienced them so she has the potential to "pull it from around the waist of the world and drape it over her shoulder," without complete ignorance but also without doubt. Now she can just marvel and cherish all the life caught in its meshes and relive her many full memories.
-Annie
I agree with Ellen. I was expecting a larger part of the book to be focused on religion and God, but I found that these aspects didn't come into play until a lot later in the book. During the hurricane was one of the times that I noticed that that God itself is mentioned. "Six eyes were questioning God"(159). This quote seems to be one of the major references to the title. It comes at an important time, the hurricane, which is the event that leads up to Tea Cake's death. During Tea Cake's illness is another time that Janie really looks to God to "save" Tea Cake when she looks to the sky, hoping that "it was some big tease" and looking to God to say it's over. I find that she looks to God when big things are happening in her life, unlike what I expected, where it was going to be centered around God, and religion.
ReplyDeleteI agree Stacy and Ellen and also wanted to point out that while this book was not solely centered around god that they certain reference it many times throughout the book. Since god is so embedded within their culture, he is (besides when something big happens) more of a looming idea, that comes up in regular intervals. For example, when Joe and nanny constantly says "I god-", and "lawd a'mussy" and when the author briefly adds something about Sundays or the church.
ReplyDeleteJust a short response to Naomi’s comment a long time ago on Janie’s hair being a symbol of her “strength and self identity.”
ReplyDeleteI had never actually thought about it until now, but that really strikes sense with me. Not only does it exemplify her sense of identity despite who scorn her, because she now realizes that what ever they say can have no real impact on her, but also reflects her confusion as to who she was and wanted to be while under the influence of Joe. As he forces her to cover her hair, he also isolates her and keeps her from discovering for herself what really matters to her.
Also, in response to Alicia's comment on the 25th about Logan's age, I would like to point out that when your younger adults can seem a lot older than they actually are in comparison to oneself. Although your point about Janie actually specifying Joe as younger than Logan and being in his thirties is still completely valid, at the same time Logan has spent most of his life working on a farm as opposed to an office, and because of this he could easily appear older than he actually is.
ReplyDeleteDespite this, though, I can't see him as being much younger than in his mid-forties, so I completely agree with you that in terms of an age gap, Tea Cake's relationship with Janie can't be that much more farfetched than Logan's.
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ReplyDeleteZora Neale Hurston was the fifth of eight children born to Lucy and John Hurston on January 7 in 1891. Although Zora was born in Notasulga, Alabama, she felt more at home in Eatonville, Florida, an all-African American town, and so she claimed the latter as her home town.
ReplyDeleteHer father, John, was the mayor of the town of Eatonville. He was also the Baptist preacher, tenant farmer and a carpenter. His wife, Lucy, was a schoolteacher who died in 1904 when Zora was just 13. John remarried and his new wife sent Zora to a boarding school in Jacksonville, Florida. But she was later expelled because her tuition was not paid.
In 1918 she graduated from Morgan Academy and went to study as an undergraduate at Howard University. She got into Barnard College where she was the only African American student.
Zora married three times. But although she married a few times, she said she only truly loved a man named Percival McGuire Punter. Sadly, it did not work out between them, because Percival wanted Zora to give up her work and move away with him. But Zora’s work was her life, and so they separated.
Zora died on January 28, 1960 at the age of 69 of hypertensive heart disease (high blood pressure). Sadly, she was buried without a grave. But it was possibly discovered in the Garden of Heavenly Rest at Fort Pierce, Florida, by the writer Alice Walker with the help of Charlotte Hunt.
There is an old saying, “Art imitates life.” And in Zora’s case this is true. In "Their Eyes Were Watching God" there are many similarities between Zora and the heroine of the story, Janie. Janie and Zora both call Eatonville home. They were both married three times and they only truly loved the last men they were with. But it didn’t work out for them. In Janie’s case her true love died. In Zora’s case she and her true love separated.
Zora was a great and inspiring writer. And though she is now gone, she will always live on in her writing.
Ellen, Stacy, and Lucas,
ReplyDeleteI also thought it would be very religious and noticed that Janie would look to God when in need.
My definition of Faith is when people blindly follow their God(s) and they don't question because that is a sign of commitment. I could ask someone in need "Where is God when you need him?" but turn around and see a number of people only looking at him for assistance. Janie and Tea Cake were searching during the hurricane and "They seemed to be staring at the dark, but their eyes where watching God"(160). Not aware If God was really sparing them a glance they looked for him, even though they can't see him. This leads me to believe Janie always kept God in mind when making life decisions.
I was wondering did you guys ever think about Death's presence in Janie's life? He is mentioned when people she loved have died and occasionally during other times. He is described to have square toes but at the same time I think that he was in the form of the bird that ate the mule. Just as God could be represented through nature(I think at one point Janie hoped God would send a sign from the Sun).
I kinda rumbled on and i feel like i didn't make much sense :( but what do y'all think?
Nazshonnii
Appearance seems to be a theme in this novel. I just noticed it while reading about the woman who so looks down on black people. While she is described as rather unattractive, she takes pride in her appearance because she looks white. Her prejudice seems very appearance based, she seems to think that those who look less 'black' are fine (like Janie).
ReplyDeleteJoe looks successful, self confidant, and attractive. His appearance appeals to Janie and makes her proud of him, as well as helping him become in charge of the town.
Janie hair, one of her most attractive features, becomes a sign of her freedom and feelings of self-worth. Her headrags become a symbol of Joe's control over her, and when she goes around with her hair downs she is usually feeling free and better about herself, like after Joe dies.
How feel about how you look tell a lot about you in this book
This is Carrie. One of the passages that I found interesting was the comparison between nature and caution. Sam Watson and Lige Moss argue about what stops a person from touching a hot stove, nature or caution. Sam says that “‘Nature tells yuh not tuh fool wid no red-hot stove, and you don’t do it neither.’” and Lige points out that “‘. . . if it was nature nobody wouldn’t have tuh look out for babies touchin’ stoves, would they? ‘Cause dey just naturally wouldn’t touch it. But they sho will. So it’s caution.’ ‘Naw it ain’t, it’s nature, cause nature makes caution’” (64-65). As people get older it seems natural to not do dangerous things without a good reason. However, caution is not something that a person is born with. It is learned through experiences when the results from dangerous behavior are directly visible. For example, touching a hot stove and then getting burned. However Sam also has a point: it is natural to learn to be cautious and that one of the reasons that the human race has survived thus far. Caution, like most things, is a natural occurrence, which is why it could be argued that caution ultimately comes from nature. But Sam only uses this as a last resort when he knows that he would lose the argument otherwise, because by saying that “‘nature makes caution’” he is basically saying that caution is what stops someone from touching a hot stove.
ReplyDeleteLehna Cohen
ReplyDeleteFreshman English
Hi everyone! So today I finished the book. It is a little late but oh well. At least I finished. Today I in this entry I am going to compare Janie to the average woman. What baffles about Janie is her ability to be so resistant to depression. When a man leaves a woman in modern day society it is often a reaction to be bed ridden for days. Stereotypically, the woman would eat pints of ice cream, call her friends for moral support and finally drag her butt out of bed and find a rebound. And so the cycle continues. But women especially in Janie's time have immense amounts of courage. More then often they are beaten, verbally abused, ordered around and looked down upon. What is funny to me is that these women are looked to be as weak people, struggling to achieve their number one goal, making their husband happy. But really these women, especially Janie are so strong that they can be beaten, take care of the kids, smile to their guests and please their husbands all in one day. We as women are supposed to be equal to men if not stronger. With all the Women's Rights activists out there you would think that would be true. But in reality we do not have the same strong mentality that Janie and other women in her time possess. A man can strip us down of all self worth. Of course we eventually regain our strong mentality again but Janie is constantly stripped of her self worth whether it be by Tea Cake, Logan or Jody. At the end of the day she can come home and take pleasure in the fact that if forced she could easily live a happy existence on her own. To be a strong women we must all have that mentality. That is one of the many lessons I have learned from Their Eyes Were Watching God.
Lehna Cohen
ReplyDeleteFreshman English
Hello again. This is a little awkward considering that my other entry is above this one but whatever. So for this entry I am going to discuss my over all opinion on this book. In the beginning the story it starts off slow with an unknown setting and too much description in insignificant detail. When beginning a story it is important to remember that the reader is coming into a fresh world, not knowing what to expect. It is broad description and attention to who, what, where, when, and how that makes a story easy to follow. As the story went on it got worse before it got better. Everything was just a blurry vision until Janie met Jody. The plot begins to thicken due to Zora's attention to describing the setting. I found the pages turning with a little more ease. My favorite part of Their Eyes Were Watching God was by far when she met Tea Cake. Janie has found her place and you can tell how suddenly the story lifts into a light and airy read. Suddenly you can feel what she feels. The end was unexpected but none the less thrilling and emotional. I was hoping Tea Cake would be able to survive but the story took a turn for the worse. At the end Zora wrapped it up by explaining that Janie was hurt but not broken. Overall the book was mediocre. I would not read this again, but none the less I am glad I finished it. I feel like this book is not for the pleasure of comfortable reading but for the historic events it represents.
By the way I'm writting this on a computer that has a strange keyboard so there might be some spelling mistakes.
ReplyDeleteWhen Tea Cake came into Janie's life and changed. Tea Cake gave Janie the freedom to do what she wanted. Janie was now allowed to do things she couldn't do before because she always had Joe telling her not to. Janie show's this in this quote
"Jody classed me off. Ah didn't. Nah Pheoby Tea Cake ain't draggin me off nowhere I don't want tuh go. Ah always did want to git round uh whole heap, but Jody wouldn't let me. When Ah Wasn't in the store he just wanted me to jes sit der wid folded hands and sit der. And ah'd sit there wid the walls creepin up on me squeezin' all de life outa me. Pheoby, dese educated women got a heap of things to sit down and consider. Nobody ain't told poor me, so sittin' syill worries me. Ah wants tuh utilize mahself all over"(112).
In this quote Janie shows she is a lot happier with Tea Cake than she was with Jody. With Tea Cake she finally feels like she can try new things. She feels like Joe oppressed her and Tea Cake treats her like a real person and accepts her as she is. Janie seems to feel like there has to be catch. All other men have treated her horribly and her experience with men prevents Janie from building a strong relationship with Tea Cake. Janie is always scared Tea Cake is going to leave her which forces Tea Cake to be jealous of Janie. Both characters are scared they are going to lose the other one
which prevents them from having a strong marriage. The only thing that keeps there marriage going is there strong love for each other. Tea Cake and Janie want to
be happy but it's hard because they can't trust each other. Hurston show this in this quote "Before the week was over he had whipped Janie. Not because her behavior justified his jealousy but it relieved that awful fear inside of him. Being able to whip her reassured him in possession" (146). Tea Cake whips Janie cause he's jealous. He needs to feel like he has power over Janie. He doesn't trust that she will stay with him. Their relationship lacks the strong foundation it needs to survive.
In There Eyes Were Watching God there are some specific references to race that start showing up around when Janie is with Joe in Eatonville. Many of the people in the town are somewhat intimidated by Joe as much as they like him, and compare the way he acts superior to white landholders. This comparison is made easier with the creation of the big white house and him taking advantage of his power running a thief out of town. While Joe comes to represent the more extreme side of the freedom to have power, the other side is explained well by Coker: “Us colored folks is too envious of one ‘nother. Dat’s how come us don’t git no further than us do. Us talks about de white man keepin’ us down! Shucks! He don’t have tuh. Us keeps our own selves down (39).” While some people find themselves quickly gaining previously unknown power, others struggle to make a new life for themselves with all the opportunities now available. Only later in the book are there characters that seem centered in themselves, neither held down or put on a pedestal by their own expectations.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Carrie that caution is learned from experience but it derives from nature. However, that does not necessary mean that its natural to know not to touch a hot stove but the lesson is learned naturally in life. I think an example of cation coming from nature is when the animals head for high ground before the hurricane. The animals being a representation of Nature, and their exodus is a cation label to the humans.
ReplyDeleteHow would he lose the argument when in fact Caution does come from Nature?
Nazshonnii
"It was bad enough for white people, but when one of your own color could be so different it put you on a wonder. It was like seeing your sister turn into ‘gator. A familiar strangeness. you keep seeing your sister in the ‘gator and the ‘gator in your sister, and you’d rather not" (48).
ReplyDeleteAlthough this quote is about racism I'm Thinking that...
The familiar strangeness is the trusteed connection that is being interfered by something that is disguised as the other side of the connection. "Your sister" that you love and will try to save is also " the 'Gator" that will kill you. You will begin to sympathize with the beast because you she your sister. Then build distrust with your sister because you see a traitor or trickster. It is only natural to ignore the problem and wish it were not true when such confusion is dropped on you.
Honestly this quote makes me think of the question: Could you kill someone you loved if they were a zombie?
My answer would be yes because you would put them out of their misery and weather they are possessed or insane they are simply not themselves. I feel this quote is a foreshadow to the obstacles that Janie later passes. This was similar to when Janie Kills Tea Cake, though she didn't want to kill him but she had to. Her life was put in danger, and it hurt her to take away the person she loved the most. Janie loved Tea Cake to the point she wanted to believe he would only try to scare her not actually pull the trigger. They shared love to die for or that would kill them eventually. Sadly, no matter how willing they were to make that sacrifice, Janie especially was not mentally prepared. It figuratively killed something inside her to literally kill him.
If they were rabid and it was too late would you kill a lover, friend, or family?
I want to add on to what Natalie said a few posts back, about Mrs Turner. She is described as "a milky sort of woman...Her nose was slightly pointed as she was proud Even her buttocks we in basrelief were a source of pride. To her way of thinking all these things set her aside from Negroes," (140). Mrs. Turner has a lot of pride because she has lighter skin than other people, and views herself as superior because of it. On top of feeling superior to other black people, she blatantly dislikes them. She states: "Ah can't stand black niggers. Ah don't blame the white folks from hatin' 'em 'cause Ah can't stand 'em mahself. 'Nother thing, Ah hates tuh see folks lak me and you mixed up wid 'em," (141). Because Janie is also slightly lighter skinned, Mrs. Turner seems to bond with her, sharing her hatred of black people. Not only is this completely irrational, it'd also very ignorant. Rather than being proud of herself and who she really is, she is proud of who she is pretending to be. She almost considers herself as white, and I think she tries to show that by turning against black people, thinking that's the most obvious way to prove it.
ReplyDeleteI see that some of you guys have briefly mentioned the importance of religion and God in this book. It seems to me that this people really depend on God to guide through out their whole life. And when something bad happens, they respond by saying their fighting against God. For instance when the storm occurs both Janie and Tea Cake say that they are facing against God's will. They don't necessarily say they hate or negate but they emphasis that God is somehow involved in this.
ReplyDeleteI think Hurston purposely did this to show their culture and believe. Not only that she makes sure that the reader understand how much they worship their religion.
A part in the book that left me confused and upset was when Tea Cake beat Janie. It was passed as so normal I was shocked. How is abusing your wife normal, even during that period of time? “Being able to whip her reassured him in possession. No brutal beating at all. He just slapped her around a bit to show he was boss. (pg 147) Tea Cake always struck me as good man until then. But he still is a good man. He beat her to assure himself he still “owned “ her as a woman which seems wrong to me.
ReplyDelete“Tea Cake, you sho is a lucky man” Sop-de-Bottom told him “Uh person can see every place you hit her. Ah bet she never raised her hand tuh hit yuh back, neither. Take some uh dense ol’ rusty black women and dey eould fight yuh all night long and next day nobody couldn’t tell you ever hit ‘em. Dat’s de reason Ah done quit beatin’ mah woman. You can’t make no mark on ‘em at all! Lawd! Wouldn’t Ah love tuh whip uh tender woman lak Janie!” (pg 147-148) Nowadays seeing a woman with bruises and beat marks could land a man in jail. It only draws admiration from the people. It shows that a man is powerful and has control of his wife if he beats her and it’s obvious. I think it’s disgusting.
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ReplyDeleteI want to add on to what Simone said, way way back about a significant turning point in Janie’s early life. When she leave Logan, she breaks free from what her Nanny wanted for her and goes after what she wants for herself, because she is unhappy. This does not turn out as she had planned and she falls into a role with Joe Starks that is more like what Nanny had hoped for her and makes Janie very unhappy. With her third marriage Janie makes sure she does not make the same mistake and steps way out of that stereotypical role with Tea Cake, and truly lives out her own dreams.
ReplyDeleteTo add to what Elena said, while I quite agree that it is disgusting, and it is definitely reassuring that we as a society have moved away from such ideals of social normality, just to play devil's advocate (my favorite), can we really judge them for what they thought was okay? I mean, clearly they thought that it was just how they laid down the law in a relationship. Also, the women while they didn't like being hit (that would be masochistic) they seemed to accept it as part of being in a relationship.
ReplyDelete“It was so crazy digging worms by lamp light and setting out for Lake Sabelia after midnight that she felt like a child breaking rules. That’s what made Janie like it” (102)
ReplyDeleteJanie and Tea Cake’s relationship is basically described in this quote. Janie’s childhood was enjoyable, but was somewhat cut short by her marriage to Logan Killicks and was certainly not revived by her marriage to Joe. Tea Cake is the only man to make Janie feel young, which is why their relationship is so precious to him. I also think Janie had become very accustomed to her rigid life with Joe, so the freedom Tea Cake brings is a relief to her. While the freedom and imagination Janie enjoyed as a child aren’t present in her life with Joe, he does treat her a little like a child in that he controls most aspects of her life and doesn’t allow her much decision. Tea Cake at times can be slightly controlling, but for the most part he allows Janie to feel at once imaginative and independent. That balance is a very important part of their relationship, and is one of the main things that attracts Janie to Tea Cake.
Heres a look at a passage that really stood out. “Tea Cake dint say anything against it and Janie herself hurried off. This sickness to her was worse than the storm. As soon as was well out of sight, Tea Cake got up and dumped the water Bucket and washed it clean. Then he struggled to the irrigation pump and filled it again (157).” This stood out to me because I was unsure at first to whom blame fell on. Was it Tea Cake and his sickness that had caused his dysphagia, making him unable to swallow. As we can see of the signs of illness has already set in, Tea Cake at this moment was having trouble with his motor system struggling to get to the water pump and Janie was already struggling to cope with the sickness. Or had recent event really distracted Janie causing her to forget to clean out the water bucket. In the end I put the blame on Tea Cake and his sickness.
ReplyDeleteI’d like to add on to what Jay said a while back about the passage on page 39. The novel is based soon after the abolition of slavery and African Americans have different feelings about how to act now that they have freedom to choose. Some like Joe, take advantage of it and become very powerful. Others just want to keep to themselves and are stuck in a “low down” role and criticize those like Joe. They are uncomfortable with the change, which keeps them from moving forward and developing their town of Eatonville.
ReplyDelete“It’s uh known fact, Pheoby, you got tuh go there tuh know there. Yo’ papa and yo’ mama and nobody else can’t tell yuh and show yuh. Two things everybody’s got tuh do fuh theyselves. They got tuh go tuh God, and they got tuh find out about livin’ fuh themselves.” (192)
ReplyDeleteAt the end of the novel, Janie has really accomplished all that she wanted to from the beginning. As a young girl, she wanted to fall in love and experience life and adventure. As a woman at the end of the novel, she has done all those things. Unfortunately, she didn’t exactly get a happy ending. However, in this quote she basically says that she doesn’t care. Unlike the other people in her town, Janie did something unexpected in marrying and running away with Tea Cake. He didn’t abandon her like everyone thought he would, but she was still alone in the end. Janie still didn’t care though. In this quote, she says she is happy she at least lived her life the way she wanted, and although she may have been hurt by it she still feels it was worth it. She really did “find out about living” for herself, and even if she is alone now at least she’s wiser and knows more about herself than anyone else in the town, married or unmarried.
One of the main conflicts in the story is that Janie is searching for love but it leads her towards men who made it so she couldn’t be free, though it’s only through those relationships that allow her to have the freedom she feels when the story ends. The story about Janie, is one about a woman’s journey to freedom and the events that lead to the final experience of the freedom that she sought. She’s only able to achieve that freedom in the end because of her relationships with the three different men which weren’t exactly the greatest. Through her loss of freedom throughout the story, she is able to complete the journey: “it’s uh known fact, Pheoby, you got tuh go there tuh know there.” (192).
ReplyDeleteI agree with Simone's last comment about how Janie accomplished everything she wanted to. After Janie's first marriage she lets go of her idea's for how her life should turn out. She really has no plans for what her future should look like, she just really does not want to waste her life. In the end she ends up having experienced so much and getting so much out of her life that she really has nothing to regret. She has lived through good times and bad and she has experience love. I also agree with what Simone said about Janie ending up wise. By allowing herself to live her life and not be held back by what others think she really does learn about herself and about life in general and she probably returns to Eatonville wiser than anyone in the town. I really liked how even though this novel doesn't end with a perfect happy ending that is still isn't sad because even though Janie is alone she is still satisfied with her life.
ReplyDeleteI'd like to add on to what Jay said a while back about the passage on page 39. The novel is based soon after the abolition of slavery and African Americans have different feelings about how to act now that they have freedom to choose. Some like Joe, take advantage of it and become very powerful. Others just want to keep to themselves and are stuck in a “low down” role and criticize those like Joe. They are uncomfortable with the change, which keeps them from moving forward and developing their town of Eatonville.
ReplyDeleteOne strange thing about the narration of this story is that sections of it are from the point of view of Joe or Tea Cake, while the story as a whole is set up as Janie telling her story to a friend. It's a bit confusing how it's set up as a story of the past, but is then told as if it's the present, and from an often third person point of view. This post might fit better under the plot discussion, but it doesn't actually hurt or effect the plot much at all, other than giving the story a foreshadowing of Tea Cake's death at the beginning and an even wrap up at the end.
ReplyDeleteI strongly agreed with Elena's post earlier about the section in the novel where Tea Cake beats Janie. While I see Lucas's point that this was, upsettingly, an accepted way to deal with conflict in the relationship, the fervor with which the men talked about Tea Cake beating Janie was sickening. Furthermore, I also think, as Elena said, it was shocking because it was very uncharacteristic of Tea Cake. Hurston writes that he only did it to reassure himself of his power, and it is true that Janie is given a nearly equal amount of power and freedom within this relationship, something that was unusual for women at this time, and maybe this was the only resort Tea Cake could find.
ReplyDeleteHowever, what is truly disturbing is the passion the men talk about the beating with. They say they would love to beat her, just for the sake of beating a "tender woman," which just seems morally wrong.
To me, Zora Neale Hurston employs a curious sense of irony in this novel. It would seem to me that Janie moves through life much in reverse from how we imagine it today. While many of us consider wanderlust to be a quality of the young, Janie begins to experience a free-ranging lifestyle much later in her life. While many people in our society grow more conservative, socially and otherwise as they age, Janie seems more liberated by the decade. By the conclusion of the novel, Janie has returned to the freedom she so wanted as a child, now fully able to understand what is available, having gained wisdom.
ReplyDeleteThis is Carrie. A part of the book that I liked is after Jody died and all the men started flocking toward Janie, expressing their concerns for she well being. Janie responds to their concern by laughing “at all these well-wishers because she knew that they knew plenty of women alone; that she was not the one they had ever seen. But most of them were poor. Besides she liked being lonesome for a change. This freedom feeling was fine. These men didn’t represent a thing she wanted to know about… She felt like slapping some of them for… trying to make out like they love her” (90). After Jody’s death men see her as a way to get rich quick. They fall behind useless platitudes and say that women are not meant to be alone and cannot take care of themselves. However, this woman that they make her out to be, a weak and reliant girl who cannot stand on her own two feet. This girl has never been Janie; she earns her keep and has changed her own life. They pretend that they want to marry her for her own sake but that is a lie. She is beautiful and rich, they have seen her listen to Jody and argue even when he insults her (with a few prominent exceptions) and support him for twenty years. But now she has tasted freedom and will not be so easily controlled again.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Stacy’s post (on Aug 15): I completely agree with this, I also wondered why after 20 years of marriage they never had children even though they, as you so aptly put it, had “sexual relations.” And this made me wonder why this was. It is possible they were unable to have children, if fate just worked that way and Janie never ended up getting pregnant, if she had miscarriages that were never mentioned, they were quite common and if hey happen early enough it is possible to not even know that you had one, or if they were very careful for Janie not to get pregnant.
ReplyDeleteIt is strange that they never mentioned any children, or the possibility of any. If Janie did happen to get pregnant, it would have taken out her later days of wandering, unless she got pregnant while with Tea Cake. It seems like either she didn't have children because the plot would be too effected, or the plot was partly shaped by the fact that she didn't. In any case, if she had gotten a child the later realization of freedom would not have happened, and that seems to be one of the main points of the story.
ReplyDeleteWhile the novel is power and well-written, I find the concluding section among the most effective. Janie’s story to that point has been one of enormous self-discovery and transformation. Moving as that is, the act of understanding and relating her journey allows the reader to finally understand many of the lessons and metaphors. Like a hero of folklore, Janie has traveled beyond the horizon to places completely unlike her home. She has faced the destructive power of nature, the avarice and ego-mania of people, and found ways to remove these forces from her life. When returning to the town, her story is unknown and she is mis-judged by her former friends. Janie’s story makes her friend Pheoby feel greatly uplifted and creates a desire to experience the same kind of freedom that Janie created for herself. (192). Much like any folklore hero, Janie has returned to her previous world having gained knowledge far beyond the everyday. Their Eyes Were Watching God, is among other things a meditation on the role myth and lore play in shaping cultures and identities. Just as Janie’s life is represented by the horizon and the peach tree, others will use her to represent their own life.
ReplyDeleteHi everyone, Gabe V. here,
ReplyDeleteAlthough nature and "ideal love" are both main themes of this book, there is one theme that becomes overshadowed by these two, and I think that it was the most interesting of the three to track: jealousy. Jealousy usually accompanies the ideal love that Janie is striving to find. "That was because Joe never told Janie how jealous he was. He never told her how often he had seen the other men figuratively wallowing in it as she went about things in the store." (p 55). This passage is followed by a man touching Janie's hair without her knowing it, and Joe makes Janie tie up her hair whenever she is in the store. In this book, Jealousy is never without consequence. In this example, she loses the ability to wear her hair down, which I believe symbolizes her freedom. When Tea Cake suspects Janie of being interested in Ms. Turner's brother, he beats her. In every instance, jealousy leads to some part of Janie's freedom being taken away, which is wrong because she is never at fault. The people who are jealous have only empty notions.
I know some of you have blogged/commented on religion in the book already, but I also want to go into it myself. Now to comment on Ellen's blog about the title and having the idea that religion would be the main theme in the book, it turns out that it was a minor theme. Religion was mostly linked to nature, and in Abraham's comment about the hurricane on how the people said they were fighting against God instead of saying fighting against mother nature. The people in Eatonville depend on God. It's like saying God did this or God sent them here or there and now they have to finish the job or find thier way to the end of the trail.
ReplyDeleteOne point in the book I found notable was the impact of Janie's grandmother. Her grandmother was the indirect source of all of Janie's problems. The obvious irony is that Janie's grandmother had the best intentions in mind. However, the decisions made by her grandmother end up leading Janie to become resentful of her situation. Janie's grandmother meant no harm, and was simply trying to prevent Janie from having to go through the ordeals that she had experienced. Janie has other ideas of what she wants from life, and is not content with setting aside her desire to explore life. Janie's grandmother assumes she knows the best for Janie, and objectifies her as an innocent child who needs protection. She never really knows Janie as a person, so her well-meant actions end up propelling Janie into her discontent.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Carrie and Stacy, perhaps Janie not having a child was another way of her defying the norm for women of that era. It seemed that Janie did not really have a plan for her life, as many around her wanted her to. However, she simply wanted to be satisfied with her life, and if that happened to include a child, I'm sure she would have welcomed it. With Joe, as Stacy quoted, "The spirit of the marriage left the bedroom and took to living in the parlor... It never went back inside the bedroom again" (71). Therefore, the possibility of a child with Joe nearly completely dwindled. I do feel that Janie and Tea Cake could have been happy with a child, yet unfortunately there was not enough time in the relationship. They seemed to still be in that young-lover, exciting, honeymoon stage when Tea Cake was killed, sadly ending all chances of a child.
ReplyDeleteGabe, there was one instance where Janie was jealous too. "Janie learned what it felt like to be jealous. A little chunky girl took to picking a play out of Tea Cake in the fields and in the quarters." (136)
ReplyDeleteI wasn't sure exactly what category to put this in, so I decided I'd be safe and put it here.
ReplyDeleteThroughout the book, Janie is practically thrown around by the people in her life. She never ever truly get's the luxury of making her own decisions regarding her life. This is all true, until she meets Tea Cake. When he stumbled into her life, he sort of acted as her savior. Their relationship almost seemed fairy tale like, as he so gently took her in his arms and made her life what it should have been all along. There are many reasons why Tea Cake is the perfect match for Janie. For one, he is young. To some people, this poses as a problem, because of Janie's place in society. But for Janie, it's perfect. She grew up way, way too fast, with no time to be a child. Tea Cake shows her how to live her life to the fullest way possible, even though she's a grown adult. Unlike most people of the time, he treats her with respect, and allows her the same privileges as any other man. In a way, Tea Cake is the childhood she never had.
Caleb;
ReplyDeleteIt is true that the grandmother's intentions were not what Janie wanted, and were forced upon her, causing her unhappiness, but they also caused her to have a place to stay after her Nanny's passing, and some form of guaranteed livelihood. Without having married Logan, Janie would have been completely alone, still a child, with little discipline and little means of making a living. Sixteen-year-old Janie is not the capable, independent woman she became after Joe's death, nor would she have started with the store and the house. This is not to say that marrying Logan was the only option; Janie and her grandmother most likely could have found an alternative to prepare for Nanny's death, and I do think Nanny could have listened to Janie's thoughts and looked at alternatives, but I don't think Nanny was the root of all of Janie's problems.
Then you must tell ’em dat love ain’t somethin’ lak uh grindstone dat’s de same thing everywhere and do de same thing tuh everything it touch. Love is lak de sea. It’s uh movin’ thing, but still and all, it takes its shape from de shores it meets, and it’s different with every shore”(191).
ReplyDeleteFrom all her experience gained from sweet and hurtful encounters, Janie tells Phoeby what she has learned about love. She explains to her that love is not the same for every relationship, and in her case the others would think Janie’s leap for love was a fail. When in fact Janie seems to have left the relationship with more happiness than in her youthful years. the simile “love is lak the sea” is used to show that love has no fixed shape or volume like water. Love is what people or “shores” makes it and there is no person or shore in the world exactly same. Janie and Tea Cake formed a love that others were to blind to see because of their prediction that she would end up like Ms.Tyler.
~Naz
I'd like to point out a connection I found in the novel.
ReplyDeleteOn p. 159, when the hurricane is about to destroy Janie and Tea Cake's home, Janie says to him, "People don't die till dey time come nohow, don't keer where you at". My insight told me that this quote basically means, that when a person's time to die comes, whenever it may be, it will happen. And that also means that they've had their time on this earth, and have accomplished what they were supposed to. Janie and Tea Cake obviously came out of the storm unscathed, so it wasn't her time to go.
But on p. 193, when Janie has lost Tea Cake, lived a full and long life, and is still alive to tell her former friends about it, it seems as if it's her time to pass. I'm not sure if that's what the author intended, but it's what I got out of the last passage.
I agree, everyone has a different way to love and expresses it differently. "love is lak the sea" could also mean that depending on where you stand on the shore, you have a different view of the sea. In other words, depending on your situation, you could have a different point of view of love.
ReplyDeleteThat makes sense. Janie has stood from three different viewpoints in relationships. She has changed and mature from each relationship and it seems that her sight gets clearer each time.
ReplyDeleteThe second marriage was an impulse to get out of wasting her life away. Her running away with Tea Cake was to finally love once she realized where to find it. She realized what she was missing she when she found Tea Cake.
“They sat in company with the others in other shanties, their eyes straining against crude walls and their soul asking if He meant to measure their puny might’s against His. They seemed to be staring at the dark, but their eyes were watching god” (p160) I think is not only a note worthy quote but also the title of the book so I wanted to write about it. Therefore, I think that this summarizes the struggles of the novel and of Janie’s life. It is humans against god in the world and the people are praying while a horrendous storm is taking place outside and Tea Cake and Janie have just realized their true love for each other which helps them survive. They need each other to survive. Tea Cake however, is the only husband Janie marries that she can truly love because of the utmost respect he has for her. Tea Cake allows Janie to preserve through many “storms” physical and emotional this is a very good thing in the novel however; Janie has to be single in order to realize and get her true dream of being fully independent and shoots Tea Cake.
ReplyDeleteArizona,
ReplyDeleteAlso, Janie's viewpoint gets further and further away from her grandmother's idea of love each time she marries and matures.
In response to Guthrie's Post:
ReplyDeleteWhile I agree that Janie's tale does inspire Phoebe, I dont think that it reaches quite the mythic proportions that you hint at. If anything, its apparent that Janie is trying to be as nonchalant and humble as possible with her story to make it as relatable and palatble to the townsfolk. Janie is more of a n inspiring individual than a rebellious folk hero.
Andrew,
ReplyDeleteI hadn't looked at it that way, thank you for pointing it out. It is as though she is becoming more and more free, without needing to carry out the wishes of those around her if she chooses not to.
Yeah, Andrew, that was really well put. I think that that quote plays itself out throughout the book a lot, and not just from Janie's viewpoint. We get small different viewpoints of other relationships besides her's often, whether it be Phoebe's with Sam or Mrs. and Mr. Turner's. I think it gives the reader a good look into the dynamics of relationships that otherwise wouldn't be considered, and also provokes their own mind about what they look for in a relationship. Just my two-cents.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Simone that Janie is attracted to Tea Cake for the youthful feelings that he brings her. In the novel great glorification is placed upon being young. This in contrast to many Asian cultures where elders are revered and treated with more respect. Toward the end of Janie's marriage with Starks, he frequently puts her down buy bringing up her age. While in a fight, Starks says to her "Nobody in heah ain't looking' for no wife outa yuh. Old as you is." (79). Even Phoeby says to Janie "Ah who hope you ain't laka possum--de older you gits, de less sense yuh got." (113).
ReplyDeleteHi everyone!Shapari here (Shopz).
ReplyDeleteAt first, Their Eyes Were Watching God was boring and confusing for me. I didn’t understand what the characters were saying and who was talking when. After I got about halfway in to the book, I started understanding and appreciating it more.
When the hurricane came I was most in to the book. The way everybody was fighting for their lives was very intriguing and kept me wanting to read more and more. From the hurricane until the end of the book, I didn’t want to put the book down.
I loved the way the author put the title, Their Eyes Were Watching God, in to the text because it really went with the whole setting. They were in the flood fighting to stay alive. And throughout the book, their eyes were indeed watching God.