Zora Neale Hurston Commemorative stamp
Plot Discussion
In many African American novels of the 1930s, race and class provide the central conflict, and the main characters are constantly buffeted and manipulated by white prejudice. However, in Hurston’s Their Eyes Were Watching God, white people play a relatively minor or peripheral role outside of a few passages. This general absence of conflict with the white south minimizes the question of race from among the core conflicts of the novel, leaving other issues to drive the novel’s plot. What seem to be the core plot-driving conflicts of Their Eyes Were Watching God?
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Hi everyone, it's Ian. The plot of the book is essentially Janie searching for true love. However we're not actually following her as she does this. The book starts with her talking with her best friend Pheoby, and they eventually get into Janie talking about her "life story". At first, Janie's talking about her childhood, but the book quickly transitions to a more third person kind of language and begins to tell the story as if were with her as it happened. The book is, for the most part, just one huge flashback that runs from early childhood up to where she's talking with Pheoby. This doesn't seem to me like it's an actual "plot", but it is, and I've seen it been used before (primarily in movies though). As for the plot-driving conflicts, I believe these are the relationships she established with Logan Killicks, Joe Starks, and Tea Cake. It's kind of hard to tell, but I think her marriage with Tea Cake is where the book lowers in tension. I haven't finished the book yet but I have a strong feeling that she stays with him. Although, in the beginning, Janie's talking to Pheoby about her overalls and she says this:
ReplyDelete"Tea Cake got me into wearing 'em---following behind him. Tea Cake ain't wasted up no money of mine, and he ain't left me for no young gal, neither. He give me every consolation in de world. He'd tell 'em so too, if he was here. If he wasn't gone."
Pheoby dilated all over in eagerness, "Tea cake gone?"
"Yeah, Pheoby, Tea Cake is gone. And dat's de only reason you see me back here---cause Ah ain't got nothing to make me happy no more where Ah was at. Down in the Everglades there, down in the muck" (7).
He didn't spend or steal Janie's money, and he didn't run off with some other woman, but he isn't with Janie. My hypothesis is that he dies. If this is true, then that might make the book lower in tension even more, and it would give better understanding to the last part of the quote. Hope everyone's having a good summer.
Hi everyone, I’m Irie! I am not that far into the book, however, one topic that I have encountered to add tension and dynamic to the characters throughout the plot is envy. From the first few pages, it is evident in the ways that envy causes the characters to behave in assuming and distasteful manners. Along with envious thoughts, intimidation and self-worth also play a major role in the ways people respond to others in several instances throughout the book. This sort of conduct is brought to attention on the first page when the workers begin to gather and analyze Janie:
ReplyDelete“But now, the sun and bossman were gone, so the skins felt powerful and human. They became lords of sounds and lesser things. They passed nations through their mouths. They sat in judgment. Seeing the woman as she was made them remember the envy they had stored up from other times. So they chewed up the back parts of their minds and swallowed with relish. They made burning statements with questions, and killing tools out of laughs. It was mass cruelty. A mood came alive. Words walking without masters; walking altogether like harmony in a song.” (pgs. 1-2)
This passage plainly displays how when comfortable with their surroundings and with themselves, the workers immediately begin to feel self-empowerment by fabricating lies and judgments about Janie out of their jealousy. Although I do not sympathize with their actions, they are comprehensible as I presume that the workers attain very strenuous lives therefore making it very easy to be resentful of those whom are much more fortunate than them.
Another example of this theme and its effects on the plot is when Jody and Janie are becoming more and more powerful and prominent throughout their town. Initially, the other citizens look up to Jody with admiration as he discusses major plans. However, once Jody acquires a sense of authority and becomes domineering, the other citizens begin to feel inferior to him. Although they continue to comply with his orders, they gather and criticize him behind his back and discuss their true feelings about him as, “none had the temerity to challenge him. They bowed down to him rather, because he was all of these things, and then again he was all of these things because the town bowed down.” (p50)
I find the conflict of envy to be of great interest as the book allows the reader to reflect on it and relate it to everyday life. By observing and evaluating its impact in the story, I think the reader is able to acknowledge how it plays a significant role in our own lives.
So far I've read to the point where Joe Starks is organizing and leading the colored town, to the end of chapter 5. One of the main conflicts I've noticed is the treatment and place of women, and it is certainly a conflict that has driven the novel so far. In chapter 2, Nanny tells Janie that she's getting close to death and that she wants Janie to marry Logan Killicks. When Janie rejects the idea of marrying Logan Killicks, Nanny says: "'Tain't Logan Killicks Ah wants you to have, baby, it's protection"(15). Nanny goes on to tell Janie about the tough life she led as a mother, and then how her daughter was raped and then started drinking alcohol. As Nanny grows old and nears the end of her life, she wants to make sure that she leaves Janie with adequate protection in the very male-dominated society they live in. The conflict of men vs. women causes Janie to need protection and marry Logan.
ReplyDeletePretty quickly into their relationship, Janie realizes she is not happy with Logan. Logan feels that Janie ought to do more work for him. Logan confronts Janie about her lack of manual labor, saying: "If Ah kin haul de wood heah and chop it fuh yuh, look lak you oughta be able tuh tote it inside. Mah fust wife never bothered me 'bout choppin' no wood nohow. . . You done been spoilt rotten"(26). Rather than simply asking if Janie would be willing to do more work, Logan insults and belittles Janie. Logan seems to expect Janie to do a lot of work around the house simply because she is his wife, and so when she doesn't meet those expectations, he becomes angry. This man vs. woman, or husband vs. wife conflict drives Janie to leave Logan for Joe Starks.
Though Janie's life with Joe is much more glamorous and exciting than her life with Logan was, the man vs. woman conflict remains. As Joe assumes his role as "Town Mayor and Leader", he becomes increasingly distant from Janie. Rather than including her in the duties as town leader, he separates those duties from Janie. This is demonstrated when Joe stops Janie from making a speech to the town: "Thank yuh fuh yo compliments, but mah wife don't know nuthin' 'bout no speech makin'. Ah never married her for nothin' lak dat. She's uh woman, and her place is in de home"(43). The idea that a woman belongs in the home and MEN should have jobs excludes Janie from a large portion of Joe's life. Later on, when Janie says that she looks forward to when Joe will be done building the town, Joe says that he is only BEGINNING working on the town. Then, "A feeling of coldness and fear took hold of her. She felt far away from things and lonely"(46). Whereas with Logan, the man vs. woman conflict manifested as anger, with Joe it causes Janie to feel disconnected and lonely.
As far as I have read, man vs. woman conflict has caused all of the changes in the story, and seems to be the main underlining conflict.
-Gabe
The summer reading book is good so far. I noticed that in the beginning of every chapter the first sentenced is always italized. I’m not sure yet what the significance of it is, but it’s probably just Zora’s style of writing. The book starts off on how men and women act during the book’s time, and she uses the word “judgement” several times in the first chapter. The language that the people speak in the book is old southern. I’m assuming the main woman in the book is Janie (about 40 years old), and she isn’t very liked by a lot of people, except for her friend Phoebe and others. Phoebe walks into Janie backyard and they talk a little bit about how others judge people especially judgement towards Janie, which shows a lot about their character. Phoebe says, “They know mo’ ‘bout yuh than you do yo’ self. An envious heart makes a treacherous ear. They done ‘heard’ ‘bout you just what they hope done happened.” This shows that people try to get information about others to make them look bad. They aren’t really interested about the good stuff in people. Phoebe also says, “So long as they get a name to gnaw on they don’t care whose it is, and what about, ‘specially if they can make it sound like evil.” This also proves my point. I wondered why she was wearing overalls, and I found out that she wore them because she had a husband named Tea Cake who didn’t waste any money, which is why Janie had about 900 dollars in the bank. The second Chapter was like a flash back when Janie and her grandmother where living with a white family. Janie was a kid then and she hung out with the family so much that she didn’t even realize that she was colored: “So when we looked at de picture and everybody got pointed out there wasn’t nobody left except a real dark little girl with long hair standing by Eleanor. That's where Ah wuz s’posed to be, but Ah couldn’t recognize dat dark chile as me. So Ah ast, ‘where is me? Ah don’t see me.” She only realized it when they pointed her out. All that time she thought she was white like the rest of the family. I still couldn’t figure out how she thought that when she knew her grandmother was black. When the grandmother got a place, Janie got her first kiss with Johnny Taylor, nut the grandmother didn’t like it. I like the grandmother because she speaks a lot of truth and wants the best for her granddaughter. She talked to her about how she wasn’t going to live very long, that Janie would need to married soon and to a white man, about how the white ruled the world, and other stuff. I look foward to the rest of the book.
ReplyDelete-Dwayne Stamps
Hey everybody! I’m Edward. Hope everyone’s having a good summer. I’m not super far into annotating the book, but I’ve read it before, so I have some background of what goes on in it.
ReplyDeleteSo, basically, I’m at the part of the book where Janie has just gotten married to Logan Killicks. This is where Janie begins telling her life story to her best friend, Phoeby Watson. It starts off as first person, but as it goes on, it switches to a more third person state, almost as if you’re with her while it’s happening.
She never knew her mother or her father, and was raised by her grandmother. Her grandmother worked as a nanny for white children in the wealthy Washburn family, and Janie grew up playing with the Washburn kids. She calls her grandmother "Nanny" because that is what the other kids call her. Everyone calls Janie "Alphabet" because she goes by so many names. She doesn’t know that she is black until a photograph of her is taken with the other children. Until the age of six, she thinks that she is white, and "the same as everyone else.
When she goes to school, the other black children are jealous of Janie because she wears the Washburn children's hand-me-downs. Even though they are necessarily clothes that the Washburn kids don’t want or use anymore, these clothes are still much nicer than what the other black children wear. Nanny does not like the fact that Janie is picked on by the other black children for living in the white family's backyard, so she asks the Washburns to help her buy some land and create a home of her own.
Janie loves to spend her afternoons lying under a pear tree, staring into the branches. One afternoon, the beauty of bees pollinating the pear blossoms fascinates her. Janie feels intoxicated by the pollen and her newly aroused sexuality. She now sees a young boy named Johnny Taylor. She previously thought of as "shiftless", but now, to her, he is a "glorious being." She walks to the gate and kisses him over the gatepost.
Nanny sees Janie kissing a boy and calls her inside. Nanny is convinced that Janie's kiss has brought her into maturity. She slaps Janie for her recklessness, and tells her that she must get married to Logan Killicks, a deacon in the town’s church. Janie objects, saying that Logan is ugly and old. But Nanny repeats that Janie must get married to someone who will keep her safe and protected. Nanny restates that she just wants to protect Janie from the burden of being a black woman.
A scene that has intense thematic meaning is the love scene between Janie and Johnny Taylor. First, it is important to note that Janie feels no affection or interest in Johnny before her sexual epiphany under the pear tree. But after she witnesses the beauty of the bees and the blossoms, Janie wonders, "Where are the bees singing for me?" She is able to project her own desires (the desires to find a mate that is worthy of her) on to Johnny Walker. This talent to create a fantasy demonstrates a large difference between Janie and the other women in the story. While the other women accept the condition they’re in, Janie has the power to see what she wants to see. She projects her dream into the world, and then surpasses reality.
Another important symbol in the parts I’ve read is the gate, and the fact that Janie kisses Johnny over the gatepost. Gates represent beginnings, openings into new worlds, new experiences, or new stages in life. Here, notably, Janie does not open the gate, meaning that she does not actually leave her youth entirely, and shift into womanhood. Instead, she kisses Johnny over the gatepost; symbolically speaking, she has only left her youth for a moment and then returned to it.
Hi everyone, it's Alicia, with a brief response to Ian's blog.
ReplyDeleteJanie does mention love fairly often, even in the beginning of the novel, but I don't think a "search for true love" is really an element in the book, and I don't think Janie ever does look for love. She simply does not want to be in a marriage where love is absent, and she is told to believe that she must be married, for protection, so she wants love in order to make those pieces fit.
An example of the absence of a search for true love is when Janie first meets Joe. At this point, her hopes of loving Logan have been destroyed, and she simply wants a way out of her life with him. When she meets Joe, she does not mention loving him, at all, between meeting him and leaving with him. She only mentions being interested by him, and before long she has left her husband for him, without any real love, or even the illusion of love. Even if she does grow to love him in some way, this love neither lasts nor was it her original reason for going with Joe.
The point of the story is debatable, and probably spans a range of themes, such as independence, circumstance, and social rules, as well as many more. However, this book cannot be summed up simply as the story of a woman searching for love.
Yes, I completely agree with Alicia. Although love is a very prominent aspect of the book, I feel that the real conflict comes from Janie's struggle to find and create a life where she can truly be herself. However it is true that much of her struggle does revolve around love, as Janie finds herself thoroughly repressed in any relationship where love is absent. Additionally, Janie’s marriages to Logan and to Joe lack love simply because they don't understand Janie and don't allow her to show her true colors. Janie enters into a cycle where not only is she repressed because of a lack of love, but the repression lead to its own type of distance between her and her partners. It is only when she meets Tea Cake that she breaks the cycle because Tea Cake allows her to think for herself. Tea Cake allows Janie to realize what it is she truly values in her own life, and it is because he lets her do these things that Janie finds true love.
ReplyDeleteOne of the more prominent themes throughout the novel is how power and conquest are linked to ones own personal fulfillment. Many of the characters, when searching for fulfillment unconsciously go about searching for it through the acquisition of power or control. Janie struggles with this, but in the end is shown to be a very independent woman. Jody rather blindly uses conquest as a method to gain personal fulfillment, attempting to dominate and own everything he can. He believes his attempts to control the world around him will lead him to a sense of completeness, and happiness. Other men in Janie’s life have similar views towards life. Tea cakes attitude towards his domination of nature is a good example of this. In the end, both men find that control does not often lead to fulfillment-especially when it comes to controlling and dominating Janie.
ReplyDeleteSo I’ve read about half of the book so far and noticed that a lot of people’s actions are powered by anger and insecurity. In the beginning of the book Hurston writes, “Seeing the woman as she was made them remember the envy they had stored up from other times. So the chewed up the back parts of there mind and swallowed with relish. They made burning statements with questions, and killing tools out of laughs” (2). In this quote Hurston is already showing how these people are trying to hide their anger but instead using it against each other. They use their anger to oppress each other because of gender. Sexism plays a huge role in Janie’s life because in this book she is trying to find a place where she is loved and accepted. Joe’s oppression of Janie because of her gender angers her. She isn’t sure what to do about it. Janie doesn’t feel she is Joe’s equal until he is dying: “(Janie): But you wasn’t satisfied wid me the way Ah was. Naw! Mah own mind had tuh be squeezed and crowded out tuh make room for yours in me. (Joe): Shut up Ah wish thunder and lightnin’ would kill yuh!” Joe knows he has treated Janie awfully but he feels too proud to admit it. Janie is trying to express her anger in a healthy manner by telling Joe why she’s mad at him but Joe doesn’t want to give up his power in the relationship. He is insecure because he knows that if it weren’t for his status people would think he was a jerk. He wanted to make sure he kept Janie oppressed because he knew he was scared he would lose her.
ReplyDeleteTo build on what Rosie and Alicia said,
ReplyDeleteIt’s not a question of true love, or even love. I believe that the driving point in Their Eyes Were Watching God is Janie’s search for happiness. Marriage and love may represent that happiness to Janie, but ultimately, they are only a name assigned to an ideal. Though what exactly she wants to be happy develops and grows throughout the text, the search for that happiness is the driving force behind the novel. The early portion of the text is devoted to Janie realizing what she wants from life, admirably represented by the scene with the pear tree, “So this was a marriage! She had been summoned to behold a revelation. Then Janie felt a pain remorseless sweet that left her limp and languid”(11). This scene sees Janie make the connection (perhaps wrongly) between happiness and marriage. The remainder of the novel sees this connection develop and change as Janie goes through her life. Essentially, for Janie, happiness is represented by an “ideal marriage” and as she experiences multiple marriages her expectations for the next shit and change. At first, her definition of an ideal marriage is quite simple, love, and sexual pleasure, and perhaps even mutual support. From her unsatisfying experience with Logan though, Janie’s definition changes. These gradual changes of her standard for happiness drive the character of Janie to actively pursue happiness. The basic human desire for happiness and Janie’s pursuit drives the novel, causing Janie to take such major actions as running away with Joe and Tea Cake.
Hola, how's everyone?
ReplyDeleteBasically I'd like to talk about Joe Stark's presence as a leader and the power that he has over the colored folks.
In the beginning Joe Stark's ideas were to simply build the town to a fine place. As he started getting deeper in to his plan, he became very obsessed with the power that came with it. I don't think he realized at that point that the leadership he was presenting to the folks was not kind. As a result many started to question his true intentions to build the town. Some said that he treats the folks as if they were his slaves, making them do the dirty job while he sits in his office. They said they didn't like him because he had a white's book on his head. They feared him although he was black, but there was this expression on his face that made them obey his demands. Although I expected the folks to react to his actions none had the confidence to challenge him. Zora Hurston mentions this briefly: "the town had a basketful of feelings good and bad about Joe's postitions and possessions, but none had the temerity to challenge him. They bowed down to him rather, because he was all of these things, and then again he was all of these things because the town bowed down"(50). She also mentions a good point on the fact the his power comes from the folks. It's also interesting that none of the folks realize that they can speak and raise their voice against him. Personally I do not like the way he runs things because he likes to control people.
A source of conflict that seems to be important is class. In the town, almost all the people are relatively poor and working-class. Joe, on the other hand is rich, and as the mayor, forms the ruling class in the community. His relationship to the rest of the townsfolk is reminiscent of that between a master and his servants: "[His house] had two stories with porches, with bannisters and such things. The rest of the town looked like servants' quarters surrounding the 'big house'" (47). However, many of the townsfolk are supportive of Joe, as he was the one that really got the town working to improve itself: "'Let colored folks learn to work for what dey git lak everybody else. Nobody ain't stopped Pitts from plantin' de cane he wanted tuh. Starks give him uh job, what mo' do he want?'" (48). Joe Starks' vision of the town is noble, but after he becomes mayor, his power starts to corrupt him. It is in some ways similar to George Orwell's Animal Farm, in which the pigs lead the animals to better their lives, then slip into the place the humans had occupied. In Their Eyes Were Watching God, the people of the town, many of whom had been under the control of rich white plantation owners before coming to the town, are lead to improve their lives by Joe Starks, who then goes on to enjoy much of the luxury and power that the whites had.
ReplyDeleteHey, it's Edward. Basically,I'm at the part where Joe has just died and she's about to meet Tea Cake. This chapter is important because it introduces the third and final man in Janie's life: Tea Cake. Hurston carefully draws contrasts between this new man and the departed Joe Starks.
ReplyDeleteThe first important difference between the men is Janie's degree of sexual attraction to each. Janie loved Joe's ambition and his ability to dream, but she was never really physically attracted to him. However, Janie is physically attracted to Tea Cake and his African-American features from the first moment that she sees him. She notices his "full purple lips," she admires his "full lazy eyes," with his "lashes curling sharply like drawn scimitars." She notices his "lean, over-padded shoulders" and his "narrow waist." Their flirtatious banter is a different sort of discourse with men than Janie has never really enjoyed before.
Another important difference from Joe Starks is that Tea Cake wants Janie to be a part of her community, to be like everyone else. Joe Starks always wanted Janie to stand out, to stand above everyone else. Tea Cake tells Janie that she should be at the game enjoying the sports with her neighbors. He tells Janie that she should learn to play checkers like the others, something that Joe would never allow her to do. Tea Cake tells Janie that she should learn to walk instead of relying on trains and cars.
There are many hints leading up to their future relationship in this chapter. When Tea Cake walks in and asks for a light for his cigarette, he asks Janie, "Got a lil' piece of fire over dere, lady?" Literally, this means that he needs to light his cigarette. Metaphorically, he seems to recognize the "fire" that Janie has inside her. This symbol links back to the last chapter, where the narrator compares the people of the world to mud balls with a spark inside them. The narrator comments that Janie struggles to make her spark shine.
As much as I dislike Joe, I believe his “power” never “corrupted” him in quite the manner that Abraham and Luke are presenting. Joe is decidedly open and unabashed about his intentions in regard to Eatonville. As he says,
ReplyDelete“He had always wanted to be a big voice, but de white folks had all de sayso where he come from and everywhere else, exceptin’ dis place dat colored folks was buildin’ theirselves. Dat was right too.De man dat build things oughta boss it. Let colored folks build things too if dey wants to crow over somethin’”(28).
That’s not exactly what one would call, noble and pure intentions, he simply wants to create something that he can manage and be proud of it, not manage the creations of others(he was a bank clerk after all). So, his initial intentions are, while beneficial to those around him, still a bit self-centered and arrogant (just like Joe). Because of his ambitious dreams and dynamic personality, Joe’s relationship with the townspeople of Eatonville is an interesting one. He certainly doesn’t boss them around like the slaves, he respects them more than that. He inspires them with excellent ideas and uses just the right amount of showmanship and intelligence to get what he wants. Not straight out bossing, the townspeople obey him because they respect him and he has an aura of power around him. Not because he can whip them.
Joe takes a special interest into putting Eatonville on the map, not out of concern for his fellow man, but because doing so will make him a big, important man. He’s too smart to just boss the people around and earn their ill feelings, in a sense; he neither manipulates them, nor orders them. He inspires them to do what he wants so that he may be a “big voice”.
Beyond that, the power he gains through his own unique means never corrupts him in quite the same sense as presented by both Luke and Abraham. He never works the town specifically for his own benefit(outright at least). He does not directly benefit off the sweat of their labor while they get nothing. Cleverly, he has his store, and so, the more prosperous the town gets, the more prosperous he is. It is within his best interest for the town to flourish and the people to succeed, not to oppress him. The people look up to him, and his extreme pride goes unnoticed, or at least, it doesn’t get in the way. His “power” only really changes him in relation to Janie. It “kills the old Joe”. And in his unceasing devotion and “love”(love for profit, indirectly) it kills his relationship with Janie. Not with the townspeople.
I agree with Theo’s comment about Joe Starks: his intention of helping out the society of Eatonville is a notable one because he wants the people in the town to feel like a community, although it later becomes apparent that he wants to prove his power to the other people. Regardless, that power doesn’t corrupt him because Joe doesn’t intentionally make the people fear him and because he doesn’t force other people to do his work. Unlike slavery, the community still does have a say in how to live their own lives because Joe takes control over the town, not the actions of the people.
ReplyDeleteI agree with both theo and brian brown about Joe Starks. Yes when him and Janie first arrived to the town of Eatonville, Joe had an urge to fix up the place the minute they arrived. He had build a store and a post office to make the place more community based. Now although he has all theses intensions the town fears him because they havent seen a black man like him who has such power and the way he runs things that makes others fell inferior to him.
ReplyDeleteHey its Devon,
ReplyDeleteThis section of the blog seemed like the best to post this in because sadly there is no analytical theory section. Today im going to be talking about symbolism in this book but specifically the symbolism of the mule(keep in mind this is personal opinion and you may have a different one).
The mule is a cross of a horse and a donkey and is primarily a beast of burden, it is worked like a slave and usually never gets a break from its bondage. One big role that the mule plays int this book is Matt Bonner's mule, the mule is extremely stubborn and tries to resist all attempts by Matt Bonner to make him plow or work whatsoever. He is an independent and resilient personality and wont let anyone control him. Even after the mule is freed by Jodie and he starts dying he fights to the end and never gives up(well until he dies of course), he even dies on his back with his legs in the air because he is fighting natures course until the end.
(warning: this may be a little extreme of a conclusion)
I personally think Zora Neale Hurston used the mule to represent the african american race(more specifically the slave in this time period). The slave lives under bondage but is always trying to break free of the repression of his/her master. The mule stays strong to the end and the mule resists the will of his masters, sounds pretty similar doesn't it?
One more interesting note:
The term "Mulatto" refers to the child of one white and one black parent. This term was created by the spaniards in the creation of the Caste system. Mulato children were approximately 3rd to lowest in the class ranking only above "zambos"(Mix of Indian and Black) and "negros"(black). The term "Mulato" literally translates to Mule so pretty much if you were mulato you were a mule/slave/beast of burden. (This is why I don't use this term to describe children with mixed parents, IT WAS MADE TO BE DEROGATORY!!!)
I have to agree with Luke; the power Joe gains as mayor ends up corrupting him and he starts to indulge into the luxuries the white people have. Although everyone respects him for saving the town, it seems as if they are losing their respect because he constantly belittles them with the difference in class and education.
ReplyDeleteI disagree with Luke that Joe Starks was "corrupt". Joe always had the intention to get a "big voice", or power. The way he got his voice to be big was by building his store and amassing wealth. He did not use the townspeople to get his wealth through orders. As Theo stated, It was hardly like the town took orders from him. Maybe Joe was in a position of power, but corrupt is not how I would describe him as mayor. Arrogant, but not corrupt
ReplyDeleteLev again, and I want to talk about the plot of the book so far as I have read. So far the book is about a woman named Janie Starks. The book follows her life in the form of a story that she is telling her friend. First Janie talks about herself as a child, when she was young she longed for love, and marriage. She constantly thinks about it. So when her grandmother, Nanny says she should get married, she gets married to a man named Logan Klicks, the marriage is good for a little bit, but she realized this is not what she wants. Logan makes her work in the field and the kitchen, and soon becomes a cold angry man. But one day while Logan is away getting a mule, a man named Joe comes to town. Janie introduces herself and the two become very good friends and begin to meet every day. During those meeting Joe confesses his love for Janie, and promises to give her a better life. The two run away to a new African American settlement, in Florida, called Eatonville. When they get there Joe asks who the mayor is and is told that there is none. So Joe has an idea to buy a plot of land and builds a house and a store, then he holds a meeting and is soon voted mayor. As the years go on in Eatonville, Janie becomes defeated by Joe's harsh ways with her. But Joe is growing quite old, and close to death. One day Janie goes into his room and they get into an argument, and Joe dies during it. Joe has a big funeral, and after Janie feels rather relieved but she cannot show it. She begins to enjoy being single, but is sad about her failed marriages
ReplyDeleteAlthough it was never a happy marriage anyway, after a while, Janie and Logan begin to grow tired of each other and become unhappy. She then meets Joe and decides to run away with him and when she confronts Logan, he is obviously torn, but hides his emotions. The next day after an argument with Logan, Janie leaves him for Joe.
ReplyDeleteI’m actually disappointed in Janie for leaving Logan. It’s obvious that Janie doesn’t love Logan and she only marries to make her grandma happy. But getting married is a big deal that she can’t take lightly. When she talks with Joe, she knows that what she’s doing is not right, but does it anyway to make herself feel better. She then asks Logan what would happen if she left him. Logan replies: “Ah’m getting’ sleepy Janie. Let’s don’t talk no mo’. ‘Tain’t too many mens would trust yuh, knowin’ yo’ folks lak dey do.” (30) But in reality, “Janie had put words in his held-in fears. She might run off sure enough. The thought put a terrible ache in Logan’s body, but he thought it best to put on scorn.” (30) Logan actually really cares for Janie and this might sound cheesy, but I think the argument the next day was intentional by Logan to make the pain of leaving each other easier.
She leaves Logan to be happy, but I have a bad feeling about what’s to come. In the beginning of this chapter, it starts off saying Logan didn’t speak to her in rhymes anymore, and look how it turned out. The next chapter also begins saying Joe didn’t speak in rhymes to her anymore.
I’d like to perhaps talk about a passage that really got me thinking as I progressed through the book: “… their eyes flung wide open in judgment. The people all saw her come because it was sundown. The sun was gone, but he had left his footprints in the sky. It was the time of sitting on porches beside the road. It was the time to hear things and talk. These sitters had been tongueless, earless, eyeless conveniences all day long. Mules and other brutes had occupied their skins. But now, the sun and the bossman were gone, so the skins felt powerful and human. They became lords of sounds and lesser things. They passed nations through their mouths. They sat in judgment.” (ch.1 p.1). reading this passage made me think, since the story begins at the end does that mean we will have some form of judgment on the characters as well?
ReplyDeleteI completely forgot to clarify who I am sorry. I’m Sophia Zoller. I just finished the book and I liked the ending. I tried to summarize the plot, which was simplistic but easy to read. The story begins with Janie Crawford-Killicks-Starks talking with her friend Phoebe about her life, and her quest to find her true love. Each of Janie’s relationships start off with her thinking she’ll love them but ends in disappointment. First was Mr. Killicks who was old and not attractive. He had a head was shaped like a skull and only wanted a wife to work hard along side him. In her next relationship Janie fell in love with Joe Stark’s confidence and ambition. Over time he becomes over-controlling and condescending. Realizing he was close to death, Janie gets the courage to stand up for herself and voice her opinions. Lastly with Tea Cake, Janie seems to have found someone perfect for her, who respects her as she is.
ReplyDeleteHey guys, I'd like to talk about a passage that I found interesting and that maybe hints at a bigger plot-driving conflict.
ReplyDeleteThe quote is from when Janie is explaining to Pheoby that she no longer wants to live "Grandma's way", and instead wants to live in her own way. She explains that, to her Grandma who had lived a hard life as a slave, "sittin' on porches lak de white madam looked lak uh mighty fine thing... So I got up on de high stool lak she told me, but Pheoby, Ah done nearly languished tuh death up dere"(114).
Pheoby responds to this with: "Maybe so, Janie. Still and all Ah'd love tuh experience it for just one year. It look lak heben tuh me from where Ah'm at."
Reading Pheoby's response reminded me of the first sentence of the novel: "Ships at a distance have every man's wish on board." In this line, what every man wants is distant from where they actually are. In Pheoby's response, despite the fact that Janie just told her how awful the "high stool" was for her, Pheoby still wants to experience it. She says it looks like heaven from where she is. It seems like there's a common theme between the first line, and Pheoby's response: what you don't have can easily seem better than what you do have. I haven't thought about it a huge amount, but it seems like this might be a theme that generally drives the plot forward.
When we are introduced to Joe Starks, his goal is basically to become powerful in Eatonville. Once Joe arrives and becomes mayor of Eatonville, he is constantly working to make Eatonville bigger, and to keep up his reputation as a good mayor. Despite all the things he achieves in Eatonville, he still dies unhappy. It could be argued that Joe dies unhappy because he always wanted more. More power, more wealth, more status. His obsession with what he didn't have (more power), prevented him from being happy and satisfied with what he did have.
Does anyone have any thoughts on that? Does the theme of "what you don't have can easily seem better than what you do have" have a role in the novel?
-Gabe
Hi everyone! Shapari here commenting on the plot. Sorry I haven’t posted in a while, I have been traveling.
ReplyDeleteJanie Crawford is a woman who was raised by her grandmother. Her grandmother, Nanny, wants to marry Janie to an older man named Logan Killicks, a farmer who can provide to her. Janie is very unhappy about moving in with Logan. Logan doesn’t treat Janie very well, and when she sees Joe Starks, she’s intrigued by his nice qualities. They start to flirt and not long after they run away and get married. One day after a couple of years of marriage Joe insults Janie’s physical appearance and Janie lashes back by saying how ugly and ineffective he is in front of the townspeople. In relent he aggressively beats her. Their marriage is split apart and Joe becomes sick. After months of not talking Janie visits his on his deathbed and gives him a tongue lashing by telling him once again how wrong he treated her, during her scolding he dies. At the funeral Janie feels relieved for the first in many years. I have only read until here and I’m looking forward to finishing the book.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteWait a minute. I'm confused by the timeline here. He explains that he spent the night partying but wasn't Tea Cake gone for about two weeks when she finds that he took her money?
ReplyDelete". . . she found out her two hundred dollars was gone"(118).
Hurston goes on to say on page 119, ". . . two weeks later. . . ."
And he doesn't actually come back until page 120 with an explanation that only covers one night.
Wat.
--Aleia
I disagree with a comment the Rose made, that when Janie finally meets Tea Cake, she is allowed to think for herself, and act upon her thoughts. Tea Cake involves her in friendly discussion and actively involves her in games and allows her to participate in activities and work. However, like Janie’s previous husbands, Tea Cake seizes control of her and manifests that she is a possession: “He…whipped Janie…Being able to whip her reassured him in possession” (147). Therefore, he does not give her much free will.
ReplyDeleteAleia,
ReplyDeleteWhat you said struck me as odd, so I went to look at it and this is what I found. It appears that Teacake was not, as you seem to think, gone for two weeks. Instead, Janie was simply thinking about Mrs. Tyler's eloping with Who Flung to Tampa. "The town had seen her limp off. The under-sized high-heel slippers were punishing her tired feet that looked like bunions all over. Her body squeezed and crowded into a tight corset that shoved her middle up under her chin. But she had gone off laughing and sure. As sure as Janie had been. Then TWO WEEKS later the porter and conductor of the north bound local had helped her off the train at Maitland." (119) So this isn't Teacake returning, this is Mrs. Tyler. However, this memory Janie conjures up ABOUT Mrs. Tyler is important to the plot, as it causes Janie to convince herself that like Who Flung, Teacake has taken advantage of her and made of with the only money she brought. The reason this is important is because the only reason Mrs. Tyler was able to get back to Maitland was because she met a boy from there who brought her back. Janie worries that she won't have this luck and she'll be stranded forever in a city she is increasingly beginning to detest.
In the same vein as what Edward says. I could understand it if she simply didn't understand the implications of looking different, but she literally didn't know? Edward pointed out that her grandmother was black so Janie should have known. I don't think that's necessarily the case. Six year old children aren't known for a good knowledge of heredity, but it still doesn't make sense for her to literally not know. Has she ever looked at herself in a mirror? Or a pond? Or really any somewhat reflective surface? Are we really to assume she can't see her own hands? And that she closes her eyes while bathing?
ReplyDeleteHi everyone. This is Mickey. I got a late start because I was out of the country. I’m going to start by saying that this book is really infuriating. The characters never do what you want them to do! It’s like the horror movie scenes where the main character walks into the sketchy looking house with the door wide open.
ReplyDeleteThis begins when Janie’s grandmother slaps her because she kissed Johnny Taylor. She acts like he meant to hurt Janie or something even though they were only kissing and it was completely consensual. This is forgivable, because she has gone through a lot, as she mentions on page 16 when she says, “…Ah was born back due in slavery…” and proceeds to tell the story of giving birth to a baby girl who was the result of rape and then running away with her only to find her daughter crawling home from school one day, having been raped, herself, but what isn’t forgivable is that she sets Janie up with a worse man than Johnny Taylor who never hurt her. It’s strange because she seems like such a wise woman, but she convinces Janie that she’ll eventually fall in love with Logan even though that’s ridiculously untrue. I think that Janie’s grandmother knows that what she’s saying isn’t true, but she wants so badly for Janie to be in a sturdy, protected relationship that she is willing to sacrifice Janie’s opportunity for love to put her in a safe situation. Of course, forcing her into this backfires since she’s a rebelling teenager, but (I hope) Janie realizes that her grandmother did everything for her that she knew how to do.
The characters’ frustrating behavior continues when Janie submits to marrying Logan Killicks even though she doesn’t love him. Then, once they’ve been married for awhile, she provokes him before running off with Joe Starks. If she didn’t want to marry him, she shouldn’t have married him, but going through with it for her grandmother, not even for herself, and then leaving him pretty much as soon as her grandmother dies is so horrible! I’m not saying that Logan was a nice guy- he really wasn’t- but that’s no excuse. She knew that from the beginning, but she married him anyway. I understand that it was normal to marry for the money at the time and place that this book is based in, and Logan was probably even expecting that, but she didn’t even want the money. Then, to top it off, she didn’t really get to know Joe before running off with him, so of course he turns out to be a misogynist, first demonstrated when Janie is asked to make a speech and in front of a room full of townspeople he says, “Thank yuh fuh yo’ compliments, but mah wife don’t know nothin’ ’bout no speech makin’. Ah never married her for nothin’ lak dat. She’s uh woman and her place is in de home.” (43) The fact that he says this is front of everyone is a clear sign that he’s not even embarrassed about his misogyny. He thinks it’s normal, and the truth is, it almost is normal for their time period. However, he takes it further than most people would at the time. Also, most black people were much more progressive than white people at the time because they had been freed from slavery only a couple of generation
Then, Janie doesn’t even try to defend herself. She just takes it and laughs even though she feels like something is wrong. Even at this early point in their marriage, you can tell that it isn’t going to work out.
On the subject of Janie not knowing that she's black as a child, I think we should try to remember that she's telling a story to her friend and she may exaggerate to make her story more interesting. Also, it was quite awhile ago for her and, this may be a long shot, but she could be remembering things wrong.
ReplyDeleteIn response to want Olivia has written: another element of the plot that has become prominent to me is that within janie's story of her physical journey, she is also telling a parallel narrative. There are, to me, two stories occurring at once: janie's search to find independence, self love, and power; and janie's search to find herself in womanhood.
ReplyDeleteAs I mentioned in an earlier blog post, Janie finds herself leaving logans house and thinks that is when she must become a woman. However, later in the novel after her husband Jody'ss death does she, at least to me, seem to embrace the fact that only now is she fully independent:
"the years took all the fight out of Janie's face. For a while she thought it was gone from her soul. No matter what Jody did, she said nothing mane had learned how to talk some and leave some. She was a rut in the road. Plenty of life beneath the surface but it was kept beaten down by the wheels" (76).
Later in the novel, after jody's death, Hurston writes this: "the young girl was gone, but a handsome young woman had taken her place. She tore off the kerchief from her head and let down her plentiful hair. The weight, the length, the glory was there. She took careful stock of herself, then combed her hair and tied it back up again. Then she starched and ironed her face, forming it into just what people wanted to see, and opened up the window and cried, 'Come heah people! Jody is dead. My husband is gone from me" (87).
I think that without her husbands death, Janie never would have found herself in the way she had after Jody died. His death brought on a sense of strength and wisdom that no other event can induce. Janie is learning to grow on her own from this point on.
The books starts out with Janie telling a story to her best friend. The story begins as her character as a child, and the first few chapters tell her childhood story. (Chapter 2, page 8) As the book continues it goes into Janie as an adult. At that point it leads you through Janie’s first two marriages, and then on to her third. Throughout that time, many big events and issues are raised. Such as the way her husbands treat her, racism, sexism, and class.
ReplyDeleteSome might say that the main plot of this book is Janie Crawford finding love, and sticking with it. As I do agree with that, I also believe that another plot in the novel is Janie growing into her own, and developing as a person. As her relationships move on, and change, I think that Janie develops with each relationship, and becomes stronger.
Logan Killicks was her first marriage. That was when she was first kind of pushed around, and hit. She never talked back to him, nor said anything about what he was doing, to his face. She stayed quiet and didn’t say a word. In her second marriage with Joe Starks in public he treated her well, but as the novel progressed he began to treat her differently and began to hit her too. Then her third marriage was with Tea Cake. He almost never hit her, until once later on in her relationship with him. Then things got better, until he got very sick.
I think all these times for Janie helped her develop as a character, and then in the end gave her more self-esteem.
As I see it, Their Eyes Were Watching God is a somewhat symmetrically written novel, in that there are two halves defined by the way Janie lives her life. In the first half, Janie behaves in a manner that is expected of her and that is how the people around her behave. The second half, which can be seen roughly as her life during and after Tea Cake, sees her behaving independently of the opinions of others, doing what she feels like doing. While there is definitely a lot of overlap between the two halves and no truly definitive turning point (unless the beginning of her relationship with Tea Cake is seen as such), there is one moment that really shows the change that happens to Janie and splits the novel. Janie is about to leave for Jacksonville and a new life with Tea Cake, and she is explaining her decision to do so to her friend Pheoby, saying, “‘Ah done lived Grandma’s way, now Ah means tuh live mine’” (114). Janie’s grandmother is a symbol, standing for society’s expectations and other people’s opinions, one of the main driving forces behind personal behavior in the culture of the novel. It is a huge statement on her part for her to ignore the views of the people around her and marry a younger man, giving up her life as a wealthy, highly sought-after widow in the process.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Brandt in that I think there are definitely two sides of Janie, the side that complies with what other want and expect of her, and the side that is more independent and self-sure. However I do not see it as two halves to the novel but rather, as I said, two halves of Janie. I think from the beginning Janie’s independence is a long time coming, and one can see the progress she makes steadily throughout the novel and throughout her marriages. Her desire for independence steadily grows throughout the story. I also agree with the symbol that Janie’s grandmother represents; she represents the oppressive and expectant views of society. In addition I think Tea Cake represents the opposite, teaching Janie how to live for herself, and allowing her to find freedom within herself and society. I think meeting Tea Cake is the most obvious moment in which the definitive change from compliant to independent is seen in Janie.
ReplyDelete"On the subject of Janie not knowing that she's black as a child, I think we should try to remember that she's telling a story to her friend and she may exaggerate to make her story more interesting."
ReplyDeleteOkay, but why would she exaggerate it? The idea that she's doing it to make it more interesting doesn't really make sense to me. Her friend asked for an accurate account, and it's not really in her character to exaggerate like that.
"Also, it was quite awhile ago for her and, this may be a long shot, but she could be remembering things wrong."
Maybe, but she'd probably retroactively realize that it didn't make sense even if she was remembering it wrong. Adults who believed in Santa as children don't speak as if he exists when talking about their childhoods.
On the matter of Janie realizing that “she was black”, I disagree with the ideas that she is “remembering wrong” or exaggerating. I don’t think it’s a literal realization that her skin was darker than the others; it’s very unlikely that she hadn’t realized that she was black. I believe that it was a realization that her skin color made her different from her playmates. She’d always known what color her skin was but I don’t think that she’d ever realized that it meant anything to anyone. The scene shows that important change and realization.
ReplyDeleteWhen Joe begins to abuse Janie, Janie does little to stop it. This surprised me because Janie had seemed like the kind of person that would stand up for herself and at least fight if not run away or get divorced. That was one of the most surprising parts of the plot for me. It's most likely because she didn't know where she would go seeing as she wasn't young anymore.
ReplyDelete"She’d always known what color her skin was but I don’t think that she’d ever realized that it meant anything to anyone."
ReplyDeleteI considered that, but she didn't even recognize herself in the photo. Janie says, "So when we looked at de picture and everybodygot pointed out there wasn't nobodylift except a real dark little girl with long hair standing by Eleanor. Dat's where Ah wuz s'posed to be, but Ah couldn't recognize dat dark chile as me. So Ah ast, 'where is me? Ah don't see me.'"(9). It seems pretty literal here. She even quoted herself. She didn't recognize herself. I see no other explanation.
In response to Baeo's last post:
ReplyDeleteWhether or not the character Janie is supposed to have actually been unable to recognize herself seems to me somewhat irrelevant, in terms of the plot of the novel and the symbolism of this section. Hurston is portraying that Janie had not been fully exposed to the harsh racism of the time in her very early childhood, and this affects her character greatly. If it is meant to be a literal event in her childhood, then it is a bit unrealistic, but not all parts of a novel are required to be fully plausible; much of Janie's life would be highly questionable in those times. In this case, the flashback is simply used to explain to some degree how Janie's unconventional upbringing affected her as an individual. If the story is meant as a symbolic exaggeration, it serves the same purpose, with slightly less questionable logistics. Either way, you could argue easily for or against this writing style, but the literal logistics of Janie's failure to notice her skin color seem both irrelevant and purposefully bypassed by the writer in order to represent (literally or otherwise) Janie's character in contrast to the cultural normality of the time.
In response to Amado, I didn’t recollect any physical abuse coming to Janie, unless I misread or my annotations do not go deep enough. I found only evidence of ridicule and verbal abuse coming from Joe Starts. All his abuse was directed towards Janie because she was the closest thing to him that he could draw attention to, to make himself look better. He knew he was aging and getting weak, but by diverting the attention of the townsfolk to Janie he could preserve his image. Janie put up with his verbal abuse because it was something she had come to live with. It was similar to the tradition of running the store, it was something she could not avoid, and she was never outspoken enough to put and end to it. But finally Janie said, “Dats a whole lot more’n you kin say. You big- bellies round here and put out a lot of brag, but ‘tain’t nothing to it but yo’ big voice, etc… (79)” She came back at Joe full steam ahead and ruined his illusion of appearance. So Janie did not end up letting Joe get away with his abuse, she fired it right back on to him, and it was the beginning of his end.
ReplyDeleteBuilding on to Alicia’s response to Ian, I’d say that I agree, but that it’s possible that Janie isn’t looking for love as much as she’s looking for acceptance. Nanny knew Janie the best and took care of her, but with Nanny gone Janie doesn’t have someone to take that place. With her first married arranged and her second based majorly on looks, Janie doesn’t really find someone to accept her until she meets Tea Cake. However, once she meets him, she has a change in character and in my opinion, accepts herself more than she had previously.
ReplyDeleteTo Alicia
ReplyDelete"Whether or not the character Janie is supposed to have actually been unable to recognize herself seems to me somewhat irrelevant, in terms of the plot of the novel and the symbolism of this section"
It's absolutely relevant. There are acceptable breaks from reality and then there's bad writing. How improbable this plot point is prevents me from taking any part of this book seriously.
"Hurston is portraying that Janie had not been fully exposed to the harsh racism of the time in her very early childhood, and this affects her character greatly"
And she couldn't do it in a way that made sense?
"If it is meant to be a literal event in her childhood, then it is a bit unrealistic, but not all parts of a novel are required to be fully plausible; much of Janie's life would be highly questionable in those times"
As a fan of speculative fiction, I know that novels don't need to be realistic; and I don't really care if they are or not. What bugs me about this is that it's not believable. I don't ask that any novel be realistic(though given that this is contemporaneous literary fiction it really should be), all I ask is some level of internal consistency.
"In this case, the flashback is simply used to explain to some degree how Janie's unconventional upbringing affected her as an individual"
Once again, why wasn't this done in a way that made sense?
"If the story is meant as a symbolic exaggeration, it serves the same purpose, with slightly less questionable logistics"
She quoted herself. It's not symbolic.
"Either way, you could argue easily for or against this writing style, but the literal logistics of Janie's failure to notice her skin color seem both irrelevant and purposefully bypassed by the writer in order to represent (literally or otherwise) Janie's character in contrast to the cultural normality of the time"
A plot hole is a plot hole. Why is it that you think they're irrelevant? Narrative matters! If she wanted to make a point about racism in the early 20th century American southeast, she should have written an essay. But she chose to write a novel, and in a novel, narrative should come first.
I disagree with what Aaron said. Yes, Tea Cake does whip Janie, however he does it out of fear that she will leave him because of Mrs. Turner’s ramblings about how he isn’t good enough for her etc. “Before the week was over he had whipped Janie. Not because her behavior justified his jealousy, but it relieved that awful fear inside him.”(147) Tea Cake whips Janie because he is afraid that she will leave with Mrs. Turner’s brother. This has nothing to do with whether Janie is allowed to think for herself and act upon her thoughts as Rosie said. He’s possessive of her because he does not want her to leave with another man, but in terms of her opinions or ideas he lets her express them freely. For example Tea Cake teaches Janie to play checkers, to shoot, to wear overalls he always lets her choose whether or not she wants to do it to begin with. He takes her to parties after the night he comes home with a guitar. In other words, Tea Cake didn’t whip Janie to show that he was boss. He did it to make sure she wouldn’t go with another man because he loves her.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Emiko’s comment on Tea Cake and Janie’s relationship. Although Tea Cake did physically beat her, he allows her more freedom than any previous husband. Furthermore she does not complain about his beating and they both express their content with each other multiple times throughout the novel. Although Tea Cake did physically beat Janie, it was out of fear and love. Their time spent together was the most loving and genuine in comparison with Janie’s previous husbands. And although he did beat her once or twice, she knew that Tea Cake was her true love.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Theo, in that Janie just never recognized what her skin color truly meant and just looked at it as just another unique characteristic. I don't think that Janie really knew that having darker skin then the other children made much of a difference. Like most children, she make presumptions of what is "normal" based on the way she grew up.
ReplyDeleteBaeo,
ReplyDeleteThe narrative of the novel is set up to be a story told to Phoeby, not as the point of view of an objective narrator. Although the story is written in third person, all of the thoughts, feelings, and events described are shown from Janie's point of view, and it is clear in the first and last scenes that Phoeby is hearing this story from Janie. When talking to friends, it is natural to mildly embellish stories, and it would not seem odd in life if Janie were to "quote herself" in exaggeration and jest.
As to your last paragraph, I never said she was making a commentary on the racism of the times, I said that she was highlighting Janie's character. Yes, the narrative matters, but a small exaggeration in a casual story told from one friend to another is not necessarily a plot hole. The event still has its relevance in Janie's character and the plot; it tells us that she was sheltered from much of the world and that she was not submitted to harshly enforced roles. I'm also not trying to say that all plot holes are irrelevant, simply that the logistics of a casual exaggeration are only a minor detail in the novel.
Also, sorry I used the word "exaggeration" so many times.
Ah, sorry for straw manning you with regards to your point on racism. I've been told that I'm not allowed to respond to posts anymore, so I can't say anything on the rest of your post.
ReplyDeleteThis book is told as a story by Janie to her best friend Pheoby. Janie is basicly telling her life story, emphasizing on the events that made her the person she had become. I feel that the entire plot of “Their Eyes Were Watching God” is Janie's search for true love, self-esteem, and finding out who she is. In the end she does find true love in Tea Cake and then loses him, which acts as an important step to becoming her own person. When the book starts she is a middle-aged woman who is the subject of gossip and ridicule, because of her decision to marry a younger man. She then starts to tell Pheoby of her childhood, teenage years, first marriage, etc.
ReplyDeleteI don't think that Janie was ready to marry Logan Killicks for many reasons, an example being her lack of self-knowledge as she is still a very young girl who doesn't yet know who she is in the world. Sadly I still don't think that, even if they were married later in Janie's life, their marriage would have worked out. Janie would never be fully content with such dull day-to-day life with a man that she obviously had nothing but contempt for. Even though Janie was unhappy the entire time she lived with Logan, I think was very important in her finding true love, as was Jody. Those two failed marriages showed Janie what she really wanted with love.
Emiko,
ReplyDeleteI agree with you that Tea Cake hits Jainie out of his fear of her leaving him due to Mrs. Turner always mentioning her brother. Although it is definitely a weird way of displaying his love, he hits her only to show to other men that she is his because he is afraid of losing her. I agree that Tea Cake actually lets Jainie have a lot of freedom and the book mentions that the other men and women are jealous of his treatment towards her and the ways in which they interact.
Through much of the book, I was driven to keep reading because I wanted to find out what Janie meant when she said, "Yeah, Pheoby, Tea Cake is gone" (7). I had assumed that she meant he had left, and so I was looking for times when he might have left for good, but he always came back, leaving me even more curious as to the circumstances of his leaving. Then, when the hurricane was starting, and Tea Cake was out playing dice, the thought of Tea Cake dying first occurred to me, and I was afraid that he would get caught in the storm while Janie survived in the house, but Tea Cake came in and they survived the hurricane together. When Tea Cake was dying, I still hoped for him to get better, even though I kne w the book was almost over and that this was almost certainly what was to kill him. All this suspense comes from a single line in the beginning of the book, and carries all the way through to the moment Tea Cake dies.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Emiko, I don't think he was trying to tell Janie anything, I think he was trying to show Mrs. Turner who's boss.
ReplyDeleteI'm pretty sure that out of all of Janie's marriages that her her and Tea Cake was the best, and i would have to agree. However, out of the Joe Starks and Logan Killicks, I;d have to say that her marriage with Joe was my least favorite because after about 2 years of a good marriage he hit he and it was all down hill form there. That really persuades me to dislike him because they were married for 40 years and 38 of them were wasted, but with Tea Cake she had only 2 years and they were 2 good years. It would've been cool if she could've spent that 38 years with Tea Cake or even cheating on Jody with Tea Cake. That would've been really cool.
ReplyDeleteTodd, I agree with your comment. The marriage between her and Tea Cake was definitely the better one. She wasn't happy with Logan because she pretty much forced herself for Nanny's sake. Then she wasn't happy with Joe because he never gave her any freedom. At least with Tea Cake, she enjoyed her life more.
ReplyDeleteI would have to agree with the last two posts. Janie and Tea Cake's marriage was not perfect, but it is a happier one than Jaine's other Marriages. Even though Tea Cake sometimes did irresponsible things or got jealous, he still generally showed Janie more respect. Her previous husbands may have had lots of money, but they aren't as respectful to Janie.
ReplyDeleteI also agree that Tea Cake was much better with Janie than her previous two husbands, but I'm inclined to side with Luke in regards to Emiko's comment. Although most of the third relationship went beautifully, this beating marked a low point in terms of the rights of women because it was in order for him to display ownership over her, not even because she did anything wrong, but because he wanted to warn away potential suitors.
ReplyDeleteHey guys. I just noticed something that reoccurs throughout the entire book. The characters are always making stories up as if they're playing a make-believe game. The people sitting on their porches watching Janie arrive without Tea Cake make up stories about her. Phoebe asks if Janie wants her to make something up to tell them. Before the mule dies, the townspeople all make up stories about its exploits before and after its freedom. After her dies, Sam makes up this "mule heaven" for the mule to go to, like a paradise for mules, "...the mule-angels flying around; the miles of green corn and cool water..." Even Hurston has this little scene where she make-believes what the buzzards are saying on pages 61 and 62.
ReplyDeleteI think that this make-believe is a coping mechanism for the isolated lifestyle of most of these characters who live in small towns where real interesting things don't happen very often. It's a way for them to use their otherwise idle minds. I believe that this is also why they have long discussions about things that may seem trivial and uninteresting to us, and also why they take such great interest in things like the lamp-lighting and the death of the mule. It is a coping mechanism designed not only for the minds of individual people, but for the joint "mind" made by the whole communities thinking together and having similar feelings. This may also be why Hurston focuses so much on things like the pollen (when Janie kisses Johnny Taylor) and the vase that Joe spits in and Janie's blue clothing that tea Cake tells her to wear. She wants us to think like the characters. These make-believe scenes are also often mimicking what is actually happening in the story, only in a more interesting or culturally different way. For example, the buzzard scene features a leader with followers who complain about being hungry, but still starve themselves until the leader eats. This seems to represent Joe Starks and the townspeople, or Starks and Janie.
I hope I described this in a way that makes sense.
Hey, it's Hannah Miller. My entry doesn't exactly fit in this discussion, but it's close enough.
ReplyDelete"Husbands and wives always loved each other, and that was what marriage meant. It was just so. (pg. 21)" This quote got me thinking: what exactly is the definition of love? Is it given by someone who cares for you and protects you? Or is it that protection and care is given because someone loves you? I think that each husband and significant others helps Janie find the true definition of love.
With Nanny, Janie is given care and protection because Nanny loves her. She sends Janie to Logan to get protection because she cannot provide it anymore. Later Janie says she hates Nanny, but I don't actually think she means that; I think she means to say that she had litte problem with being pushed out into the world. It was just a little early, and the wrong person was chosen to take care of her.
With Logan, she feels the absence of love. Sure, he takes care of her and protects her, but there is no chemistry or attraction between them. There is not a lot of writing that goes into their marriage, so I'm actually not entirely sure why there isn't love. She wholeheartedly tries to feel something, anything, but she doesn't know what she is trying to feel, and she doesn't find out with Logan.
With Joe, I think she is attracted to him because he carries himself like a white man because he is confident. He wants respect. He has high dreams, and he can realize them. He can protect her. But initial attraction is not love. This second marriage is midway between Nanny's hopes and Janie's decision. She is still marrying in hopes of finding love and protection, and whatever love there was in the beginning (because I think there was some) disappeared slowly.
With Tea Cake, she finally finds close to the perfect husband, and the definition of love. Love, in this case, came before the marriage, and lasted until the end. It is exactly like Christian wedding vows, you know: "to have and to hold, from this day forward, for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, until death do us part." Even the death, although strange and troubling, was done in love. They loved each other, and so they married, then cared and protected each other because of the love. Before, she had been cared for. Now she was doing as much caring as her husband. That's what love is all about.
I think one of the driving plot-lines in this book is Janie's quest for love, for a bee, for the perfect husband.
Hannah's point above is very interesting - I'd like to respond to her last point, though, about Janie's quest for love. I think the story is less about her looking for love, but about how she changes in response to the love she comes across, whether she expects to or not. (Interestingly/randomly, in the later parts of her marriage to Joe, she wasn't so much changed by love as by the absence of love.)
ReplyDeleteThe plot of Their Eyes Were Watching God was overall very well written and engaging. There were a few parts that could have been better. The main part that was weird was the ending. It was a little bit unclear after Tea Cake died and it got a little bit boring. She should have just ended the book after the trial because I felt like the rest of the book was just filler and didn’t have much relevance and didn’t add to the plot. It also jumped around in time a lot when Janie was married to Joe Starks. It made it hard to follow with the plot and was not as fun to read during these parts. It also made it confusing.
ReplyDeleteIn the beginning of the book, after her arrival at the town, Janie’s childhood is revealed in detail, however after she gets married to her first husband many details of her childhood become somewhat irrelevant. Sure the fact that her mother ran off shortly after Janie’s birth, and that her grandmother became obsessed over Janie being “disciplined” and married before she too could runaway are vital to the story and are first mentioned in her childhood. However other aspects, such as, when she saw the picture of herself next to her Caucasian classmates in preschool, and how she used to live in a building in the schoolyard are never really mentioned, hinted at, or reference after they occur. Details like these do contribute to character development, but they made the beginning somewhat slow and cumbersome at times. They also are not as necessary to the plot and are never mentioned when she’s running off with Joe Starks, or being cooped up in the Post Office or firing a gun at Tea Cake. The only references to Janie’s childhood that she makes at are of her long-lost mom or her disapproving grandmother, not her old home or school picture. Most of the beginning of the book and intro to Janie’s life gives some character development to the younger Janie, but makes the beginning slow and drawn out, and is not necessary information for reading the rest of the book.
ReplyDeleteI think that the end of the book did a good job of wrapping everything up. It brought the reader back to the beginning of the book when Janie started to tell her story to Pheoby, and showed Janie's own process of forgetting everything she didn't want to remember, and remembering everything she didn't want to forget, mirroring the line on the first page: "Now, women forget all those things they don't want to remember, and remember those things they don't want to forget."
ReplyDeleteOne of he many things that I noticed as the book expanded throughout the marriage between Janie and Tea Cake is that they start to get jealous of one another causing their relationship to dwindle. As a result Hurston uses this new idea of jealousy to farther explore who they really are and how much they can trust each other.
ReplyDeleteWhen Janie first started working in the fields picking up beans she realizes that some "little chunky girl" has been messing around tea cake. It was then that she "learned what it felt to be jealous" (136). Although Hurston gave us hints that. Janie was insecure about who she was, she never really gave us an understanding of how much she truely trusted him but now we see that Janie's faith in Tea Cake quickly falls just like the moment when she woke up without her two hundred dollars.
As a result we, the readers come to understand that this relationship that Janie has built does not have a foundation, because we can clearly tell that she obviously does not trust him enough to be her soul mate. Another thing that I would like to say is that she is with him with the hope of accomplishing a stable life but to do so she is negating the reality: that every reader can foreshadow that this marriage is not right.
In response to Devon
ReplyDeleteI agree with Devon's idea that mules represent black people in the novel, specifically Janie. Janie, like Matt Bonner's mule, is struggling to find her independence. Matt Bonner's mule resists domination in a similar way as Janie.
Although it was not clear to me what Devon's intention was in bringing up the issue with the word mulatto, I feel that Hurston used it in an appropriate way because of the time period she was describing. I acknowledge that it may be offensive now, but back then it was a widely used term even among African Americans.
Throughout the book, sexism plays a big role. Almost every male character in the book shows signs of sexism, whether it's saying that a man can understand a hundred times more than a woman (Joe) or expecting complete obedience bordering reverence (Logan). Men have very different views of what women are compared to men. One man thinks they are helpless creatures, like little baby chickens, who need men to survive.
ReplyDeleteWhat really drives Janie is trying to find the "perfect union." A great deal of what she looks for in a man is near equal treatment of men and women, something only Tea Cake has of all her husbands. He treats her like a free spirit, something she greatly appreciates. She finds her perfect union there, and sexism retreats to the sidelines a bit.
Here emotions drive the plot for a while, whether it's longing (Tea Cake misses her on the field), jealousy, worry, doubt, and many others, some unpleasant, some fairly cheerful. Then we have the hurricane, which definitely is the most obvious conflict for several chapters. There is the worry and doubt in the aftermath, and then when it all passes, another conflict comes along: Tea Cakes illness. This conflict becomes more and more imposing on Janie and Tea Cake, until finally Janie is forced to kill him after he goes completely insane. Grief then takes over from there till the end of the novel, as well as the search for the comfort she needs to move on and most likely end her days in peace.
I think that much of the information in the beginning of the book, in response to Brenden, was given as a background to Janie's personality more than information to further the story. Janie's desire to be equal to those around her throughout the book is foreshadowed in the short story about the picture in the beginning. Her school experiences, on the other hand, seem to be her first dose of other people in the world outside, and her experiences continue in similar individual sections until the end of the book. The beginning is both a foreshadowing and the start of the themes in the book.
ReplyDeleteWhen Tea Cake and Janie begin to see each other in a romantic way the whole town disapproves strongly. They think, “all the men that she could get, and fooling with somebody like Tea Cake! Poor Joe Starks. Bet he turns over in his grave every day.” (110) At that point in the book Tea Cake is portrayed as being essentially the exact opposite of Joe Starks. He is silly, fun-loving, dirty-broke, and free. Were as, Joe Starks was academic, stern, and put as much time as possible into appearing as though he never had any fun in order too seem more important then everybody else.
ReplyDeleteFor the first time in her life Janie is having fun and it’s all because of Tea Cake. For example, “It was so crazy digging worms by lamp light and setting out for Lake Sabelia after midnight that she felt like a child breaking rules. That’s what made Janie like it.” For the first time in her life she gets to feel rebellious and free, In a sense the town is against her having fun because they associate her with Joe Starks who was always very proper at all times.
I agree with kate that janie looks for the perfect union of equal treatment of men and women. Out of her last two marriages, Tea Cake definitely does fit this the most, but just looking at Tea Cake with no comparison to Logan and Joe, he is not the best husband. I blogged a little about this before but just to bring it up again, he beats Janie and it really makes me wonder why she doesn't mention anything about it or fight against it. Anyway, Tea Cake is definitely Janie's best husband but that really isn't saying much looking at her past husbands.
ReplyDeleteI just finished the book. The ending was definitely one of the saddest, yet joyful endings I have ever read. Personally this book has touched me in many different ways. Especially when it comes to understanding what love can do to you, when only and only you truly are in love.
ReplyDeleteWhen Janie first started explaining what happened to pheoby it seemed to me that all of the men she met had left her for her money. It seemed kind of easy to spot what happened with every next man because the same problem happened to her when she couldn,t really find the man she truly loved. As I read the last 40 pages however, I felt like I was reading a different story, because my intuition of how the story would end was totally off.
When the hurricane hit the Everglades, Tea Cake had no idea what it would do to his town. He really never considered the damage it would cause. Just as Janie said the Hurricane had killed him and her after all. And it could not have been "the meanest moment of eternity"(184) at the same time.
Now when I think about that quote I feel really sad for it has ended. It's kind of hard to imagine that this book would end in such a hard crushing moment despite all the things that both Janie and Tea Cake had went through. For instance I thought the hurricane storm was the reason they were able to bond together like never before. Not only that they understood how much they needed each other as they looked upon the many tragic moments they experienced to try to save each other's life.
Overall, I think this book was really good because it brings out many realistic ideas that occur in this world. It kind of teaches some of us also to may be understand what it really means to fall in love.
Duces.
The fact that the towns people disapprove of Janie's relationship with tea cake is symbolic of the fact that Janie and Tea Cake's relationship is not about exteriors, support, looks, other peoples views or strategy, it is purely about love. Janie does not care about how people view her or her life because she has blossomed into an independent women, she cares about how her relationship with Tea Cake makes her feel. Tea Cake also is one of the most significant figures in Janie's life. The growing that Janie did because of her relationship may have changed her public view, and the way she looks, but it made her stronger inside, and that was what her nanny always wanted, and she felt love which is what SHE always wanted.
ReplyDeleteIn regards to what a couple of people have been saying about Tea Cakes treatment of Janie, I agree with Ami. Yes, he treats her the best out of all three of her husbands but I would argue that he actually has the most power over Janie. She is so in love with him that she would allow him to beat her and follow him wherever he goes even if its dangerous. Although Tea Cake only employs this power over her once, when he beats her, it just goes to show that he has that power. If he were to employ it more often, I believe Janie would have a very difficult time being angry with him or leaving him. I think this point is proved in Janie’s second marriage. Janie is not nearly as infatuated with Joe as she is with Tea Cake, but when Joe begins to treat her badly she still has a very hard time standing up to him.
ReplyDeleteI found it interesting the way Zora Hurston designed and carried out the ending of the novel. The way Zora Hurston decided to, in a general sense, remove Janie from her dream life filled with love and happiness. In Everglades with Tea Cake, Janie had been able to grasp everything she wanted, she was away from her old life where she was judged by the towns people and forced into social norms here she had love and freedom. I thought the ending of the novel could sit on a shelf with many of shakespeare tragedies where death had kept apart a romance between Tea Cake and Janie. Similar to a shakespeare play there was a feeling of katharsis with the novel but unlike Shakespeare's plays the katharsis happen with in the novel. With the death of Tea Cake and Janie's return to Eatonville Janie was able to see that she has lived her dream, that she had been to the “horizon and back”
ReplyDeleteI agree with Emma and Ami that Tea Cake definitely has a huge amount of control over Janie. It seems like they have a great relationship, but if it is more examined there are a couple dysfunctions between Tea Cake and Janie, mostly involving him not trusting her or exercising control over her. Janie is finally happy, so she accepts this. I also agree with what Isaiah said. Hurson definitely could have ended the novel with Janie and Tea Cake escaping from the flood. However, having the novel end with Janie reinforces the point that the novel is really about Janie more than anything. It's about Janie as a person, and not about her relationships with men, and having her end the novel alone reminds the readers of that.
ReplyDeleteI have to agree with Haven. Hurston made Janie's third and final marriage one that was centered around love and care. Although Tea Cake did have a tremendous amount of control over her, like mentioned earlier by Haven, their relationship was solely about love. I enjoyed the ending and, like what Simone brought up, that it was just about Janie's return home. I felt like it was her homecoming to reality in many ways.
ReplyDeleteI’ve noticed a lot of discussion over what exactly the conflict is in this novel. I think it is what the definition of marriage is for Janie. She starts with the notion of the pear tree: “She saw a dust-bearing bee sink into the sanctum of a bloom; the thousand sister-calyxes arch to meet the love embrace and the ecstatic shiver of the tree from root to tiniest branch creaming in every blossom and frothing with delight. So this was a marriage!”(11) This idea of love and marriage being one and the same, however, is proved wrong by Janie’s first marriage with Killicks which proves to be more or less loveless. Her second marriage comes closer, but with Starks the love is learned and she finds that it wasn’t as deep as she thought when she is not sad when he dies. The third marriage lives up to expectations, Tea Cake loves her and she loves him, but by this time she has realized that love and marriage are two different things, she has finally found the definitions she has been looking for the whole time and, satisfied, she comes home.
ReplyDeleteOn page 39 two men discuss Starks plan for the town. What I found interesting was when one of the men said “dat’s how come us don’t git no further than us do. Us talks about de white man keppin’ us down…he don’t have tuh. Us keeps our own selves down” (39). I found this quote interesting especially for when this book was made. He speaks on how African Americans should dream big, that Joe was doing the right thing. I believe that the message Zora sends though this quote is important life lesson, which is to Dream big. That only you can keep you down, and with the support of others you can succeed. Then as the two men continue their conversation the other man states how he doesn’t believe in Joe Stark’s dream of opening a post office. Despite the fact that his friend just made a great point on how we keep ourselves down. He continues to say the Joes idea of a post office will happen “When hell freezes over” (39).
ReplyDeleteI also agree with Simone that ending the novel with Janie happily married to Tea Cake after the flood would not have matched well with the themes throughout the rest of the novel. Janie is portrayed as a strong-minded, independent woman and despite her defiance against men's control over her she almost always has a husband by her side. So I think that ending the novel with her unsupported by a man but still strong was appropriate.
ReplyDelete"So Janie waited a bloom time, and a green time and an orange time. But when the pollen again gilded the sun and sifted down on the world she began to stand around the gate and expect things. What things? She didn’t know exactly… The familiar people and things had failed her so she hung over the gate and looked up the road towards way off. She knew now that marriage did not make love. Janie’s first dream was dead, so she became a woman." (25)
ReplyDeleteJanie married Logan because she was told that it was the proper thing for a woman to do and she must be supported, and that she would grow to love him with time. In this passage she has been married to him for almost a year and she realizes that this information was false and she will never grow to love him. Janie begins to long for something more. What she thought was her dream was to marry and be in love and be happy. But when she realizes that this dream was not her own, but her Nanny’s, and is completely unrealistic she “becomes a woman”. This means that she no longer chases what is expected of her but begins to be independent and go after what she wants for herself. Although this is not when Janie acts on her independence, it is a significant turning point because she knows that she can and will.
In response to Emma, I agree that this is indeed a turning point for Janie. I believe the reason she acts on this information so much later in the book is because she takes a while to process and act on this information that she had discovered.
ReplyDeleteIt seems that Janie has always had an air of independence, first shown by her kissing Johnny Taylor while her Nanny was sleeping. However, after being forced to marry Logan, it seems that Janie has to rediscover her independence. I think Emma makes a good point that after realizing this marriage will not satisfy her life, Janie knows that she must make a change. She is constantly struggling to maintain her independence in her relationships, yet she succeeds at last, finding the steadiest balance she can with Tea Cake. She is in fact so close with Tea Cake that when he is finally gone and she has the opportunity to be to be completely independent, she chooses to keep his memory and presence alive and close.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Emma Asano’s post: I also agree that this is a turning point for Janie, she learns that love and marriage are no one and the same thing. But as Lucas said she does not apply this knowledge immediately. Even though she knows that marriage and love are not the same, she still jumps from one marriage to another. Though she has learned some, she still does what is expected of her and she remains married and only the man has changed. However later in life she will finally get rid of this belief after Jody dies. She knows that women can survive alone and that it is up to her and no one else if she wants to get into a relationship again.
ReplyDeleteEven with the realization and the death of Jody, she still ended up in another marriage quite quickly. I suppose it could be said that her last marriage was a good one, it was certainly the one with the most up-beat tone, but a particular instance of abuse in Janie's relationship with Tea Cake makes me think that taking advantage of her new found freedom for a longer period of time would have been a better idea than jumping into another marriage.
ReplyDeleteI was always under the impression that Janie had a relatively healthy relationship with Tea Cake. I feel that the death of Jody didn't have much of an impact on her for a few reasons. She felt that Jody was not the same person he was when she had married him, and she was also aware that he was on his deathbed. She had known for a long time that she no longer loved Jody, and that he was a different person. When he died, she was able to move on relatively quickly. Tea Cake appealed to her sensibilities because he loved her as a person, unlike Jody's objectification of her. Once she came to terms with this, she had no qualms in getting married to him. I don't think that she was "taking advantage of her newfound freedom" as much as realizing that Tea Cake was the kind of relationship she had been searching for her entire life. They may have had some rough patches, but she made it clear that she loved Tea Cake, even after his sudden demise.
ReplyDelete“ ‘Ah ain’t grievin’ so why do Ah hafta mourn? … De world picked out black and white for mournin’, Joe didn’t. So Ah wasn’t wearin’ it for him. Ah was wearin’ it for de rest of y’all’” (113).
ReplyDeleteI think an interesting aspect of Janie’s development throughout the novel is the change in her character's confidence after Joe’s death and her meeting with Tea Cake. In this meeting with Phoeby Watson, Janie’s speech is so defiant and self-justified. Before this, we really only saw this side of her in her thoughts. The first time it truly escaped she was beaten by Joe, and the second time she only stood her ground because Joe was on his deathbed.
Janie was always free spirited, evidenced first by her spontaneously kissing a boy she barely knew. Janie could care less about what a colored woman should be doing in this time, she just wants to do what will make her happy and comfortable. Janie loves being herself, and therefore falls in love with men who allow her to do so. Tea Cake does indeed support this confident, matter-of-fact side of Janie, and with his assurance, these qualities grow, until she confidently speaks exactly what is on her mind. In the above conversation with Phoeby, it is clear that Janie does not care what people think anymore, and is set upon living her life the way she chooses. And this is how she proceeds to act for the rest of the novel.
In response to Luke and Ellen's comments I think that regardless of exactly why we all seem to agree that Tea Cake didn't beat Janie as a possessive act towards her which is what Aaron said.
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ReplyDelete“Before the week was over he had whipped Janie. Not because her behavior justified his jealousy, but it relieved that awful fear inside him. Being able to whip her reassured him in possession. No brutal beating at all. He just slapped her around a bit to show he was boss. Everybody talked about it next day in the fields. It aroused a sort of envy in both men and women. The way he petted and pampered her as if those two or three face slaps has nearly killed her made the women see visions and the helpless way she hung on him made men dream dreams.” (147)
ReplyDeleteI found this passage interesting because it shows a lot of reactions that one would not normally expect. For one, Tea Cake beats Janie to show everyone that she is his possession because he is jealous of other men wanting her. This is out of character for him and he brushes it off so nonchalantly and seems to show no remorse: “No brutal beating at all. He just slapped her around a bit to show he was boss”. It’s like its expected of him. This passage also shows how much power he truly has over Janie even if he doesn’t always employ it. Second, I was surprised how Janie just let it go like it was nothing. Once again this shows how much power Tea Cake has over her because of how much she loves him. If Tea Cake were to assert his authority on Janie more often I think she would have a difficult time standing up to him or leaving him because of how infatuated she is. I also found it curios how Tea Cake’s beating of Janie made the towns people idealize their marriage. Before when Tea Cake hadn’t beat Janie, they may have thought that he didn’t have power over her or that Janie didn’t respect him enough, or little at all about their marriage. But after he beats her everyone is jealous of their perfect relationship.
In response to Emma's post on September 4th,
ReplyDeleteI completely agree that Tea Cake has the most power over her, even if Joe managed to make her wear hair ties and keep shop, and whatever else. I would like to add that the fact that Tea Cake doesn't consciously try to use his control over her as much as the others is possibly the reason that he has more power. Janie first started questioning her marriage and affection for Joe when he stopped thinking about her at all and started forcing her to do everything, to maintain his image, to be who he wanted her to be. That hunger for power is what showed Janie that Joe didn't care about her so much as her public image, in relation to his. Tea Cake, however, rarely uses his control consciously, even if he unconsciously is the reason she does so many things. This character trait is part of what makes their relationship work.
hello again,
ReplyDeletei believe that jealousy or envy is something that most characters feel, and is one of the largest conflicts in the book.
for example, as Janie's and Logan's marriage progressed, he got increasingly unhappy because he was jealous about the lack of work the Janie was doing from his view. he shoved more work on her, like skinning potatoes and attempting to get her to chop wood. this lead to Janie running off with Joe, who became increasingly unhappy with her throughout the years do to his envy of her looking so good, while his body was withering away. in trying to make him feel better about himself, he would often poke fun at her age, of her non-existent frailty, until she struck back very effectively, crippling their relationship.
In response to ZayZay BasedGod McCole's post:
ReplyDeleteI never thought about the connection to such refined literature as Shakespeare, but indeed there is catharsis (yup with a C) at the very end. It is extremely poignant that we ultimately discover that Janie is telling the story from the perspective of having lived the 'happily ever after' and now must continue with the hardships of everyday life.
I agree with Amado that the town disapproves of Tea Cake because he is almost the exact opposite of Joe Starks. I am curious as to how the town would have reacted if Janie decided to marry another suitor like Sanford who was in her class.
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